GOD HELP THIS COUNRTY!!

[flannj]

Gardasil is yet another elaborate corruption scheme in which Merck Corporation has blatantly purchased the mandated use of this drug, and has purchased media propaganda services of Sanjay Gupta and other "TV Doctors" to fabricate a new scare. It would be a total mistake to think of this story as one of "Government thinks it knows best" - that is not at all what this is about. This is the private sector cooking up schemes to make fortunes by rigging government through corruption, and buying off media pimps. This story belongs in the same column with Post 9/11 Hysteria Syndrome, Blackwater scam, FEMA trailer scams in New Orleans, bogus contracting in Iraq, media consolidation, loss of 'net neutrality and so on. In this case, the Texas legislature clearly saw through this scam and all the connections Perry had to Merck.

"Doctor" Deneen, I would like to see or hear your evidence that this is an "elaborate corruption scheme". 

"Doctor" Deneen, I would like to see or hear your evidence that this is a "fabricated" new scare.

"Doctor" Deneen, I would like to see or hear CONCRETE evidence that shows that it is approprate to use the terms "cooking up" or "purchased media propaganda" or "rigging" or "scam" in the context of this MEDICAL issue.

Amy, after "Doctor" Deneen has consulted with a couple of his fellow Family Practitioners and Pediatricians and then relates to us his expert medical opinion, I would ask that this thread be closed.

[Dflip]

I guess I missed the start of this discussion and the usual diversion that it seems to have found.

About ten years ago at a grade 7 and 8 school I was teaching at, we had to bring in a public health nurse to teach safe sex to grade seven girls. They were being passed around by the local wannabe gang. It was either educate or the girls or deal with very early pregnancies. Every year we have one of our former students give birth at 15 years of age. There is a problem out there and the students need to know about safe sex. While it might be admirable to cite abstinence as the solution, some of us also deal with the realities in this world. Nothing forces these young students to engage in sexual activity, but having knowledge on how not to get pregnant and access to the available resources is beneficial to society on a health and economic basis.

Our school has a "no beachwear" policy which means don't show too much skin or you will be covering up, or going home to change. We also prohibit alcohol, drug and profanity slogans, etc... on t-shirts that the children wear. At the highschool level the rules seem more open. A few of the highschools that have gone to uniforms have done so to help identify the additional students who show up at the school to partake in other activities and commercial activities (gangs and drugs). It identifies those who belong from the riff-raff.

Homeschooling is fine if the parents are knowledgeable enough to present and teach the required curriculum so that their child can pass the state or provincial tests. Frequently there are other reasons for the child being home-schooled and they usually involve views and ethics that are less encompassing than the public school system. It also tends to happen more frequently at the lower grade levels where the parents are able to keep up with the math and science skills they are required to teach.

[Zen Traveler]

... If America needs something new to get scared shirtless over, I suggest obesity would be far more real than cervical cancer. At the rate we are growing, the 13 year old girls will all be 300 pounds and die of heart disease long before cervical cancer gets a chance. If you really want to "mandate" something useful in schools, howabout nutritious food and get the Coca-Cola corporation out of the school system?

I agree with independent family research and decision making. There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the argument. Obesity statistics and Healthcare concerns are what should be being discussed on a national level because they go hand in hand and effect all Americans, whether by health or by pocketbook (or both).

Getting back on topic, I also feel that statistically, unwanted pregnancies by the teens in question is higher than statistics for cervical cancer, but closer in numbers to the obesity rate (although not as high).

Imo, the title of this thread shouldn't be "GOD HELP THIS COUNTRY," but instead "Country, Heal Thyself." [^o)]

[Jay481985]

Okay..... I admit posting in the beginning and stopped reading from page 6 to the last page.....

If you are worried about teen pregnancy, why don't you also worry about your teen when they goto college..... I live next to a freshmen dorm and the fact that I see way too many underage kids drunk and horny would make any normal parent alarmed..... Yesterday a friend and I went out to eat at a diner and we came back from my car to the dorm, a 100 foot walk, did we get approached by two way too drunk girls that were wearing less clothes than needed for a 40 degree night. They realized we were upper classmen living in the upperclass men dorm next to us and asked if they could come in with us.....I never even saw them before..... Old Buckster about now would say things like "You Go Jay!" yet he would be the father that would get his gun out and hunt me down if I impregnated his daughter or found out we were having sex.....

[Zen Traveler]

...the even bigger point is the constant post-nine-eleven propaganda of fear that is popping up everywhere. I really think Americans have basically lost their marbles, and common sense too.

I feel I understand your point and agree with what you are saying here for the most part. [^o)]

I am an American and feel this country won't go to hell in a hand basket if Americans start counting their marbles and realize that we are all on the same playing field (or ring to maintain the appropriate analogy ) and that we should capitalize (pun intended) on our strengths to address national concerns.

I honestly think the place to start is Campaign Finance Reform, where the electorate would gain if they knew who was trying to sway their vote and look into the merits of both sides of any issue and come to a conclusion that benefits them and their families. I don't think most families are that far apart on major issues.

The freedom of expression in this country is a double-edged sword. We have some excellent communication venues (this Klipsch Forum being one ;-) to learn about subjects and express our views; Unfortunately, as you pointed out in another thread, there is so much "noise" out there it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

In political discourse I would like to see less name calling and more issue debate, however that doesn't support everyone's agenda. [bs]

[Zen Traveler]

{Tkda Edit: I did not cut and paste these comments because they don't pertain to this discussion, imo. I would hate to see amy shut down this thread because of a misinterpretation of an adult situation}

Ah yes. I call this the Good ol' days. Some things never change nor would I complain about this one. [:#]

Fwiw, children grow up to become adults and have to make decisions on their own. Where I would agree with your point is if the girls in question didn't have the motives you suggest and you took advantage of the situation by forcing your agenda on them. Then again, adults make all sorts of bad decisions and I won't go any farther on this train of thought because it's extraneous to the discussion at hand.

[Jay481985]

We didn't do anything as my dorm roommate and I went back to our respected dorms alone and I think this pertains to the question at hand with the original intent of the post, the birth control, children having sex to early, etc. I just added a new dimension... what about the so called adults.... what now cause they are 18 they technically can make decisions themselves, when most of these "adults" its their first real time away from mommy and daddy and the first time they ever consumed alcohol in mass quantities without the worry if they are going to get caught by mom or dad. I find it cynical when Old Buckster and others talk about abstinence and then say to me go get them! and asks me to post pictures of the girls.

[Zen Traveler]

It would be nice, but unlikely, isn't it? I was recently reading up on the railroad era of US history. At that time men would walk right into the halls of Congress with cash, and walk around openly dispensing it to legislators for votes. So, that kind of corruption has always been with us, and would seem very unlikely to be eliminated. What IS NEW is the crippling fear in the population.... Perspective is in order here.

"Coming back to our senses" is a process that I think requires a certain psychology that is often triggered by leadership. ... Get back in the sunshine, do something GOOD in the world, go to Mars, invent the hydrogen car, or cure cancer or something.

I can't be that much of a pessimist or I would end up living my life that way. [:S]

Imo, the difference between now and then is that we live in the Communication Era and C-SPAN would capture the cash changing hands. The folks "giving cash to politicians," are the one's paying for the advertisements to get them elected and I wish we could legislate more Truth in Advertising." I have thoughts on how to do that and will save it for another thread. ;-)

Fwiw, I am advocating what you suggest and believe in electing leaders that could make a difference. I also think there are people in the Private Sector that can and do contribute.

[Zen Traveler]

... I just added a new dimension... what about the so called adults.... what now cause they are 18 they technically can make decisions themselves, when most of these "adults" its their first real time away from mommy and daddy and the first time they ever consumed alcohol in mass quantities without the worry if they are going to get caught by mom or dad. I find it cynical when Old Buckster and others talk about abstinence and then say to me go get them! and asks me to post pictures of the girls.

OK. I see your point and nothing wrong with a little cynicism . ;-)

My point is that everyone has to grow up sometime and make decisions for themselves--That time for most people is either college or when they turn 18, at least to when the responsibility shifts from parent to legal adult.

Imo, the way a lot of American families deals with Alcohol and Sex isn't conducive to teaching responsibility or awareness for either one. That's not to say that regardless how the subjects are broached at home there wouldn't be abuses and bad situations. The best antidote on the subject I've heard was from Steven Tyler of Aerosmith when talking about why he thought abuse was so rampant: " What parent's fail to mention is how good these things make you feel and they make it seem so taboo. Kids start to rebel and wonder what else their parents lied about." Granted this is over simplified and I am damn sure not advocating either one because the negative consequences are real.

Far be it from me to defend OB, but there is a difference in how you see things as a parent and how an adult male views an attractive female. I also think boys are sometimes brought up differently than girls when it comes to this issue (although there shouldn't be a double standard). Effective communication within families is the key to the dilemma you describe, imho. [^o)]

[Jay481985]

I know..... I find it funny though that most guys here envy me in college where the girl to guy ratio is 58% to 42% and they tell me post pic etc etc while at the same time if it were their daughter im sure some of the forum members might drive down with their hunting gear......

I guess I am turning old, 22 almost 23 and when i look at these so called adults (17-18) freshmen that are trying to fit in with their new environments, I laugh at their mistakes and such..... Did I do stupid things, yes.... but it is different as you describe it shouldn't but there is a double standard..... I am a male, they are females... drunk, walking by themselves with no other escort.....

[Jeff Matthews]

Most of that is just "guy talk." Some is a little bit of entertainment at the expense of other people's stupidity. I don't think there is anything wrong with that so long is it does not become obsessive.

The key is to "roll with it" and have fun without being a screw-up. Always keep your snap.