Zen Traveler Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 ..... My Best Wishes and Prayers go to you forum members that are raising your young children in this craziness, and I'm sorry todays Adults have sat back and let this mess happen. It looks like right now, we Baby-Boomers, will be the First generation to leave this world in worse shape than our parents left it for us ... Unfortunately, I agree with oldbuckster here and no high-five will be offered. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 So in your world kids are not being sent home from school with 800 numbers that can be used for reporting their parents who then get investigated just because they provided a well deserved spanking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 So in your world kids are not being sent home from school with 800 numbers that can be used for reporting their parents who then get investigated just because they provided a well deserved spanking? No. Without getting too far off base, what 800 number are you talking about that allows kids to turn their parents in for well deserved spankings and what is the correlation of this and Hitler Youth? The last time I checked parents were still allowed to spank their children and if it is raised to the spectrum of abuse aren't you glad that children are protected {edit: or at least have the opportunity to report it.}? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law [*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 While I don't object to the idea of being able to report real abuse, I do object to the indoctrination of children at school which leads them to believe that whatever makes them mad constitutes abuse. Furthermore, when such a report is made and an investigation commences, there remains on file that an investigation took place, and the parents in question are now tainted as having "been investigated" for possible child abuse. it is much like other forms of accusation in our present day where the allegation carries its own stigma regardless of merit.(See "Richard Jewel") Not that i am speaking from experience, except from seeing the advertisements encouraging this behavior. As for the parallel with hitler youth, to me it is inherently obvious that promoting such power of accusation by children over adults breaks down the fabric of society that most of us grew up with regarding the basic hierarchy of adult wisdom and the guidance of children, as referenced in previous posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't think there is any evidence of the indoctrination of children at school of what you suggest and Richard Jewel adds nothing to your argument because he was vindicated over an incident that has nothing to do with kids turning in their parents for abuse. [:S] I contend if you were correct in your assumption it would be inherently obvious to both of us because the abuses would be plastered all over our media or I would hear about it first hand. I have heard or seen neither. If you could refer me to a link on the Internet or something in our Texas media I would be glad to reconsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 ... to me it is inherently obvious that promoting such power of accusation by children over adults breaks down the fabric of society that most of us grew up with regarding the basic hierarchy of adult wisdom and the guidance of children, as referenced in previous posts. Fwiw, My love and admiration for my own parents does not transcend the abuses I saw growing up (and that I see now) and I contend that respecting adults because they are adults negates the fact that not all adults are worthy of respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 OK, point taken. i am out of pocket but I do know there are lots of instances of false accusations, usually involving teachers. Innocence does not make as big a splash though. The Richard Jewel case is relevant not because of any application to children but to the general application of the accusation stigma. His life was ruined thanks to a presumption of guilt. he was not vindicated until way after he was plastered on national magazines as the top suspect for the FBI as the culprit. His life was never the same afterwards all because of a false accusation. This same type of occurence happens way more frequently than the media reports. Your trust in the media that they would publicize the false cases in equal ratio to the cases where there is an obvious smoking gun is charming though. At this point I think that like Garymd on page one: I will now keep my mouth shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Your trust in the media that they would publicize the false cases in equal ratio to the cases where there is an obvious smoking gun is charming though. I am not asking for an equal ratio. I respect your argument, however I have not heard of any. If what you are saying is true I want to be equally outraged. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I don't think there is any evidence of the indoctrination of children at school of what you suggest and Richard Jewel adds nothing to your argument because he was vindicated over an incident that has nothing to do with kids turning in their parents for abuse. [:S] I contend if you were correct in your assumption it would be inherently obvious to both of us because the abuses would be plastered all over our media or I would hear about it first hand. I have heard or seen neither. If you could refer me to a link on the Internet or something in our Texas media I would be glad to reconsider. Oh, but it is pervasive and very obvious! Look around you. No teacher or principal is going to take any action against a kid without first clearing it with a school lawyer or some "dumbed-up" policy manual that contains a "treat-'em-all-alike" zero tolerance policy. Dress codes mean nothing because they might abridge the First Amendment. This is a prevalent fear of raising kids. Also, it happens with some degree of regularity that kids get haywire with drugs and thugs, and if the parents slap them around a bit, the kids call CPS. They know when they play that card, the parent will back off in order to keep from going through that kind of crud again. The media does not report what is happening because there is this "Dr. Spock-type" belief that parents can manipulate all childrens' conduct through "proper" reasoning. So, corporal punishment - and instilling the fear thereof - is now a sign of a failed parent. Further, if a kid shows every sign of becoming a thug - like disheveled hair, multiple body and face piercings, and a general disdain for authority - this is to be considered acceptable as the child's need to express himself/herself. You are supposed to find the child's drugs or bail them out of jail before you take any pre-emptive actions. It is backwards. I don't think America is going to hell in a handbasket, but I think America's hell is alot more outrageous now. Remember when Elvis was the epitome of the unspeakable? We've come a long way, baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 The picture most of you paint is not a pretty one in your families and neighborhoods. I suggest you do everything you can to make it better through the appropriate channels--this will be the only family that you have, in the only United States of America there is. [ip] I have defended teachers who I gather we all agree don't have an easy job. Those of you that have problems with Teachers Unions or School Boards must stay active in your child's school and try and be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. I personally don't have a problem with "the media," but if you do, I suggest turning off the tv and spend more time with your children doing quality things. If you can't do that or in addition, I would actively boycott media outlets and/or write your congressman about your ideas of change, and get like-minded people to join you. I happen to like the idea of not spanking post 5 year olds and feel parents could benefit by working on their communication skills. If you can't discipline your children without slapping them around, imo you shouldn't have kids, but of course you have that right. The kids that I knew/know growing up that had the most problem with drugs and alcohol are the ones whose parents routinely slapped them around. Fwiw, I thought there were laws against tattooing and body piercing children under the age of 18 without parents consent. [^o)] In closing, I will agree that raising a child/children in any decade is a challenge, but feel it can be done as long as parents stop blaming everyone else and actively get involved in their children's lives. I also realize there are things beyond any parents control and sometimes situations get out of hand. I wish all of you parents luck in dealing with these situations. Normally I am not home to watch the news at this time on a Thursday, but I guess it's fate. ;-) As I am writing this, I see on NBC News that there is a book out entitled "The Nanny State." I feel it is going to be a must read for some of you. All kidding aside, I agree with some of the comments made, but I contend parents can control their children in effective ways and should get them involved (along with themselves) in constructive activities. My last 2 cents on this thread. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Thanks to you guys that wished me well. Surgery was a success but old boomac won't be ready to chuck balls in from the outfield anymore. Tennis is possible but golf should be OK. Typing is a PITA but I'm getting to listen to a lot of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hang in there Boomac, just a minor set-back ................. You'll feel better, taken me a year, but coming back, slowly ....... Best Wishes !!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Unfortunately, this will not be the first or last of that type of thing. Gov Rick Perry in Texas wants to have 13 year old girls vaccinated for a std linked to cancer. Until people take back the power to make their own decisions about their families. It will only get worse. Politicians are notorious for thinking they know what is best for us because the general public is just not smart enough to make important decisions. Personally I think when my little girl is old enough to go we may home school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Unfortunately, this will not be the first or last of that type of thing. Gov Rick Perry in Texas wants to have 13 year old girls vaccinated for a std linked to cancer. Until people take back the power to make their own decisions about their families. It will only get worse. Politicians are notorious for thinking they know what is best for us because the general public is just not smart enough to make important decisions. Personally I think when my little girl is old enough to go we may home school. Welcome to the forum, bigdaddy. :-) I have a mixed opinion on what our Governor proposed. [^o)] I agree with you that it should be a parental decision and I hope parents are smart enough to have their daughters vaccinated. Insofar as Home Schooling is concerned, that is also a mixed bag, imo. I have dealt with a lot of Home schoolers. Suffice it to say that most I felt did their children harm and weren't qualified for the endeavor. That being said, a few went about it in the right way and I am sure their children benefited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Unfortunately, this will not be the first or last of that type of thing. Gov Rick Perry in Texas wants to have 13 year old girls vaccinated for a std linked to cancer. Until people take back the power to make their own decisions about their families. It will only get worse. Politicians are notorious for thinking they know what is best for us because the general public is just not smart enough to make important decisions. Personally I think when my little girl is old enough to go we may home school. Welcome to the forum, bigdaddy. :-) I have a mixed opinion on what our Governor proposed. [^o)] I agree with you that it should be a parental decision and I hope parents are smart enough to have their daughters vaccinated. Insofar as Home Schooling is concerned, that is also a mixed bag, imo. I have dealt with a lot of Home schoolers. Suffice it to say that most I felt did their children harm and weren't qualified for the endeavor. That being said, a few went about it in the right way and I am sure their children benefited. tkd-I would be genuinely interested to learn what sort of harm you have seen in the children that were homeschooled, and when this occurred. (The time frame is relevant, IMO). -David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzp Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Welcome back Scott. Rosalie and I send you wishes for a speedy recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 tkd-I would be genuinely interested to learn what sort of harm you have seen in the children that were homeschooled, and when this occurred. (The time frame is relevant, IMO). You have a PM. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Home-schooling would be mighty tough on a parent. I was a fantastic student, and I cannot remember all the things we learned back in school. That is why schools have teachers that teach 1 subject - over and over.... or maybe 2 at most. Anyone remember diagraming sentences? How about writing hypotheses and theorems and working through them? How about the elements and covalent vs. ionic bonding? How about how to determine the length of a distal side in an isosceles triangle? How about the area under a curve? I think a person could go look these matters up and re-learn them, but it would be a momentous task to try to get all of that stuff back down at the same time you are trying to teach it. It could be done, but I think such a task is for someone who is not faint of heart and has lots of time. I think a parent who himself/herself has good writing and grammar skills could probably pull-off English and History. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 ...Anyone remember diagraming sentences? How about writing hypotheses and theorems and working through them? How about the elements and covalent vs. ionic bonding? How about how to determine the length of a distal side in an isosceles triangle? How about the area under a curve? ... I don't remember those things even from a past life. [:$] My Dad was brilliant and my mom was educated and loving, but neither one had the temperament to take on that responsibility, or the delusions that they were all I needed in that regard. I'm not saying there aren't some unique people out there who could pull it off, but being an effective teacher isn't as easy as it looks especially when it comes to teaching one's own children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Unfortunately, this will not be the first or last of that type of thing. Gov Rick Perry in Texas wants to have 13 year old girls vaccinated for a std linked to cancer. Until people take back the power to make their own decisions about their families. It will only get worse. Politicians are notorious for thinking they know what is best for us because the general public is just not smart enough to make important decisions. Personally I think when my little girl is old enough to go we may home school. Edit: 13 year old girls and STD is a disingenuous description of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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