GOD HELP THIS COUNRTY!!

[oldbuckster]

Jeff, just bustin' on ya' Bud ................... Each of us deep down know what we think is right, doesn't mean the next person agrees with us. Nothing is going to change because of a bunch of folks on a speaker forum throwing around their ideas, but atleast some seem to care about the subjects, and the way I see it, this is a good thing, PEACE Brother ...................

[Zen Traveler]

Are there studies showing that these programs have NOT caused an increase in promiscuity?

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Yes. I am referring to scientific studies by credentialed researchers with public health bona fides.

Fwiw, I don't think there could be much of an increase in promiscuity given what I observed growing up in the 70's. [^o)]

[boomac]

Whose interests are being served by a decline in moral values and a weakening of the family? A teen gets pregnant and shes a victim. Somebody gets hooked on drugs or alcohol and theyre a victim. A kid skips 80% of the school year and he/she is a victim.

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If leadership really wanted dads to raise little girls with a sense of pride and moral fiber, theyd find a way to emphasis such behavior. If they cared about truancy, literacy and bad behavior they wouldnt excuse it.

tkd - you dont really see a difference in the 70s and what goes on today?

[el jopez]

Aids epidemic did rise out of that time frame. But how young were people engaging in promiscuity then? It seems these days everything is being marketed to a younger and young audience, even sex. Why? When I was 7, that was the furthest thing from my mind. I just wanted to go out and get my jeans tore up.

[Zen Traveler]

Whose interests are being served by a decline in moral values and a weakening of the family? A teen gets pregnant and shes a victim. Somebody gets hooked on drugs or alcohol and theyre a victim. A kid skips 80% of the school year and he/she is a victim.

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If leadership really wanted dads to raise little girls with a sense of pride and moral fiber, theyd find a way to emphasis such behavior. If they cared about truancy, literacy and bad behavior they wouldnt excuse it.

tkd - you dont really see a difference in the 70s and what goes on today?

I don't feel like there is a decline in moral values and don't think it's Government leadership per se whose responsibility it is to dictate morals, although I feel it important to have good role models in Government.

Amy warned us about getting political so I won't comment on the current state of affairs concerning how much we want Government in our lives dealing with personal and spiritual issues.

Sure I see a difference in the 70's and today. Suffice it to say that most of our Grandmothers were quite young when they married and I for one wouldn't want to go back to the time where daughters were expected to marry the first and only person they were intimate with. Having grown up in the 70's and seeing the progression since, all I can say is that I am happy with my life and am proud/fortunate to have the parents that I had especially after knowing where they came from. They were excellent role models and allowed me to become who I am and not who any organized group wanted me to be.

I hope that kind of freedom and nurture goes on in families throughout the twenty-first century and that more parents take an active role in the upbringing of their kids and not blame the media (or any other external sources) if their kids turn out bad. {edit: I feel economic issues have more of an impact on children than the media ever will.}

[boomac]

So you think corporate greed is the culprit? Does that mean you give government, unions, the media and other special interest a free pass?

tkd said: "I hope that kind of freedom and nurture goes on in families throughout the twenty-first century and that more parents take an active role in the upbringing of their kids and not blame the media (or any other external sources) if their kids turn out bad."

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I agree but geesh they could use a little help!

[Zen Traveler]

So you think corporate greed is the culprit? Does that mean you give government, unions, the media and other special interest a free pass?

tkd said: "I hope that kind of freedom and nurture goes on in families throughout the twenty-first century and that more parents take an active role in the upbringing of their kids and not blame the media (or any other external sources) if their kids turn out bad."

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I agree but geesh they could use a little help!

I agree, but feel that poverty and working class poverty especially when it deals with healthcare issues are the breaking point for alot of families and I don't think our Government is doing enough in that regard. That is an issue for another thread. ;-)

[pauln]

It seems these days everything is being marketed to a younger and young audience, even sex. Why?

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Because it's good business, of course.

When I was growing up I never saw so much as a quarter, never carried any money, did not need it, didn't have any. When I went off to high school I still didn't carry money. $10 a week was my disposable budget all through college.

Todays kids, even young ones, have lots of their parent's money to spend. Children and teenagers don't really have any impulse control and are very easily swayed by advertising inferred peer presure, so they will burn this money on junk more quickly with less thought than any other market segment.

It is only natural that the result is marketing cheap lousy crap to children and teenagers.

Since the orientation of products is more aligning to the whims of children every day, the movies become unwatchable, TV infantile, clothing ridiculus, food sweet, salty, fatty, and poor... don't even get me started on the retarded music... it is getting progressiely more difficult to purchase like an adult in today's deteriorating selection of kid focused offerings from the market.

An honest person has to come to the conclusion that despite the "public" statements, we show little regard for children or their wellbeing.

But don't worry, the developing economic collapse once it sets in nice and firm may turn all this around for the better. Now would be a good time to prepare for it by getting your bikes in shape, collecting books, and learning how to entertain yourself (including playing your own instruments). Then you will be able to enjoy time with your children like in the old days.

[boomac]

I figure that the unions associated with teachers do little to promote the changes necessary to make a positive impact. Theyre more interested in compensation and the pursuit of buying political muscle to preserve their interest. Government can put the squeeze on corporations to pay tax & adhere to regulation (both good and bad). Government tells corporations who they can hire and who they can fire. They even tell them where they can and cannot locate. You mean to say that government cant put the pressure on corporations to reduce the sexual innuendo in their ads? I dont mean for government to dictate either. Perhaps a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US Senator should stand on the floor and criticize corporations that shuck their responsibility to encourage strong moral values. Heck, it would certainly be in their interest in the long run. But no! We have US Senators that get on the floor, stamp their feet and whine about what some talk radio personality said! Are corporations the only ones buying votes?

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If you think its the corporations then why is small business blasted with the burden of over regulation and unreasonable taxation. Thats where jobs come from and you would think the darn government would want to encourage it. But no.. While fat cats like Kerry, Kennedy, Bush and Cheney avoid their fair share, (small salary - big wealth) the small businessman gets porked, porked and reporked! Tax the rich they say!

If you think CEOs make too much money than we should improve the education system to the extent that they teach reading, writing and arithmetic. Instead of telling every kid theyre special and that its OK if they think 2 and 2 = 5 we should tell them that life aint always fare and this is what you need to do to succeed and this is how you should behave if you want to be respected. It aint all that hard. You just draw the lines, hold people accountable and the cream will come to the top! We don't need a gazillion social welfare majors. What we need are doctors, engineers and business leaders that can think! We sure as heck don't need a bunch of academic socialists teaching kids policy that will lead our society straight down the drain.

[Gilbert]

It seems these days everything is being marketed to a younger and young audience, even sex. Why?

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Because it's good business, of course.

What is "Good Business" ? Please define you're interpretation of this word.

[Gilbert]

Are there studies showing that these programs have NOT caused an increase in promiscuity?

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Yes. I am referring to scientific studies by credentialed researchers with public health bona fides. I am not referring to mere crackpots or entertainers or bloviators publishing anecdotes or spouting opinions on the radio or in blogs, ok? I refer you to the many journals of public health where you will find numerous studies over the years that address these questions. All the information is out there for those willing to dig and learn.

Please post a link to this website sigthing the specific information (pertaining to the subject matter of this thread) you mentioned as being provided by credentialed researchers. Whether their non-profit or otherwise, I'd love to read this information.

And if your up to the challenge, I'd like to offer you a bet for a fully loaded Blueberry (everything but the tubes) that I can effectively dismiss and make null&void the credentialed researcher's credentialas within 2 sentences or less. I'll back it up my end of the bargin (should you accept) with some vintage NOS NIB tubes.

[boomac]

If we can stop a corporation from selling cigarettes we should be able to stop them from selling sex to juveniles.

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Ya know its not just the act of sex in and of itself. Its about robbing our kids from childhood. Some parents try hard. Others dont give a darn. Our leaders dont care. Its like stealing a kids heart and for cripes sake, I think it should be a felony!

Congressmen, Senators and Presidents are not people like us. If theyve not already changed they do so after gaining office. Since I cant fathom a bunch of corporate CEOs joining hands to call the shots I have to believe there is some other entity wielding power. Its just too freakin oblivious, (by their actions or lack there of) that our representatives are pathetically ineffective and not in control.

[Jeff Matthews]

On the issue of the government not being a "them," but being an "us," I am not in agreement. I agree we have the power to vote, but unfortunately, once they are in, they get to use our tax dollars to further a program of brain-washing against us. That is the danger.

For example, how many self-proclaimed conservatives have been led to believe that it is evil or bad to tax capital gains, while at the same time, these same self-proclaimed conservatives do not, and are in all likelihood never going to, have any serious capital gains income in the first place? In such a manner, they are told that if taxes can be cut, then, they will be free to prosper.

The self-proclaimed conservatives then jump on the bandwagon believing they will be set free to prosper; but then, what has really occurred is a self-defeating vote of support for a reduction in taxes in favor of another class of people. In doing so, mind you, the government still has a budget to meet. So, when capital gains rates are reduced, the tax is made up elsewhere - usually in things the middle class buys to survive and provide a decent living for their families. Moreover, the decline in revenues experienced from lowering taxes on the wealthy only operates to insure a delay in any possibility of further declines that would actually favor the middle class in any significant way. To that, the self-proclaimed conservatives are reassured that benefits will "trickle down." The only trickling I've seen since the theory began in 1980 was that real wages have actually not kept up with inflation. With this observation, I can only wonder what would have been the case had the benefits been given directly to the middle class so that no "trickling down" from elsewhere was needed.

Tax dollars are used to promote deceptive dogmas to convince people to vote against themselves.

I do not use the term "conservatives" perjoratively, nor do I mean anything other than this has been the targeted group to be the tool of a skewed tax policy. In many respects, I am a conservative myself, as you can see from my prior posts, but I still have disdain for some of the deception that is practiced by our own against us. Media is a very powerful tool, as it is usually extremely effective.

[Zen Traveler]

I figure that the unions associated with teachers do little to promote the changes necessary to make a positive impact. Theyre more interested in compensation and the pursuit of buying political muscle to preserve their interest...<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I also have a problem with teachers unions, but the irony of what you said about teachers is that it's the opposite of the sentiment that started this thread in the first place. I think that, if anything, we should listen to teachers opinions about what they are experiencing working with children and not discount possible solutions.

Although I understand your concern in your last post, I feel your remedy is unattainable and off the mark on whose responsibility it is not to expose kids to what you feel is inappropriate. There is no way the liberals are going to curb free speech and that conservatives are going along with more government evolvement especially if the corporations they both are invested in are making money--Sex Sells. It did in the 70's and it does now. Fwiw and speaking as a moderate, I have no problem with sexuality in marketing and don't think it has the impact you suggest on children today (anymore than the things we were exposed to in the 70's).

I do not use the term "conservatives" perjoratively, nor do I mean anything other than this has been the targeted group to be the tool of a skewed tax policy. In many respects, I am a conservative myself, ...

[Y] [H]

[Jeff Matthews]

Since I cant fathom a bunch of corporate CEOs joining hands to call the shots I have to believe there is some other entity wielding power.

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Help me out here Boomac. Who then is trying to sell lipstick and thongs to 10 year olds? Who is buying concessions at the schools to sell Cokes and fries? Who exactly is producing the TV, movies, music and games that so many parents detest? Who is trying to get kids on Prozac before teen years? Where's all the pollution coming from? If it ain't CEOs, who is it?

Corps. do. They contribute by providing money to keep candidates in power (and with a job). Candidates know who pays the bills.

[Jeff Matthews]

I agree, but it does not lessen the degree of brainwashing that occurs through use of tax dollars.

[Jeff Matthews]

You are right about that. The whole concept of coprorations was brought about to protect the investors by limiting losses to the value of their investment. A separate, "responsible" entity was set up to accomplish that purpose.

We should not expect to see any change there, but I do see a populist movement of sorts growing.

[Zen Traveler]

but I do see a populist movement of sorts growing.

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My assumption is that these local movements will succeed and eventually move upwards. Or.....OTOH, we will all be smashed like bugs.

Fwiw, I feel that we are living in the Communication Age where facts are easier to present and contradictions are easier to spot. Imo, if we could get past all of the name calling and extraneous [bs] in public discourse the answers would be more apparent to our population. Of course I realize that is not the world some folks live in....

[oldbuckster]

Maybe it's time for a TRUE Third Party in this country, the Republican and Democratic Partys have let us down, talk, talk, talk, add some name calling, and nothing gets done, tough talk with zero results.............I'm such a dreamer !!!!!!!!!!

[boomac]

Wouldnt it be nice if the media picked up on this? Named names and dollar amounts! It aint gonna happen!

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Stuff like this makes the internet critical to maintaining a free society. If we lose the freedoms associated with it were in deep doo doo!

Ive talked about term limits before but always get the line we lose too many good people! Where are these good people? I figure the good ones get out of the game because of the overwhelming amount of scum that permeates the institutions. At least with term limits theres a chance somebody might do the right thing.