montegro23 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Can someone tell me what heresy type was the best klipsch had produced....once someone told me to make sure to get the ones made before 1985...im not sure i dont remember clearly.. Is there anyone here that knows the best years klipsch manufactured them..and if so..how do i recognize them...ty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well ... the reason you hear people say that older versions are better, is the drivers that are in the earlier Heresy's. Heresy I had the same tweeter and mid range as the Klipschorn, La Scala and Belle. Being K77 and K55. Heresy II had different drivers .... K76 and K53. The woofers in Heresy's are 12" as opposed to 15" in the bigger brothers ... so you can't really compare those drivers. Someone will come along and give you the cut off date .. but I think it was a bit earlier than that .... maybe early '80's .... and I also think there was a period during transition where it was mix and match ... not sure. Do they "sound " better ... not sure ... mine have the newer drivers and they sound great .... but some people would only consider Heresy I's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegro23 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 thanks G. K...what i would really like to is what am i looking for on the label...ic different types like HOO and HBR .. or what serial numbers would I be looking for. I want the best heresys klipsch made..but i need some more advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I have owned both the originals and the model 2. I think both sound fine and any differences are small in my opinion (others may argue about this). BTW, there is now a series 3. These have not been around very long so there will not be many on the used market. Those who have heard them (I have not) give high praise for them. Good Luck on your Heresy hunt. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 OK ... while I can't give you the exact date of the change over .... assuming you want a Heresy I you can ignore everthing that say Heresy II ... which will be '85 and later. The letters HWO and HBR are just denoteing the finish of the outer surface (WO) Walnut Oiled (BR) Birch Raw .. to date the speaker .. you need to look at the serial ##. But that does not assure that you get the early style K77/K55 combo as the change over in drivers started in the late Heresy I's From early on ... til '83 (I think) .... serial # had a letter which denoted year ... So you are looking for a Heresy I with a X or earlier in the serial ## .... and again ... anything with U,W, or X ... you should open the back and check the drivers ..... T and earleir ... it is a safe bet they are the older style drivers . Someone will come along and refine those dates ... I bet U and W are safe ... but not sure. Anything 1984 and later ... the first two digits will denote the year. I personally think ... you would be happy with any Heresy .. .I or II ... I would not spend too much more to get an older vintage .. sonically ... you may not gain much ... if anything. And .. the older speaker will NEED the crossover caps refreshed ... so budget that too. Here is the chart ... 1962-1983 Letter format A = 1962 F = 1967 K = 1972 R = 1977 X = 1982 B = 1963 G = 1968 L = 1973 S = 1978 Y = 1983 C = 1964 H = 1969 M = 1974 T = 1979 D = 1965 I = 1970 N = 1975 U = 1980 E = 1966 J = 1971 P = 1976 W = 1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegro23 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks G K!!! thats the info im lookin for ...ty ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 ............... I want the best heresys klipsch made..but i need some more advice... They BEST Heresy made are Probably Heresy III and can be bought new from Klipsch. They will easily best the Heresy I and II ... some here have upgraded to these components and the difference is very noticable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'd have to say that the best Klipsch has produced is the Heresy III. That said, for cool factor, the pre-HeresyII are my favorites because they have the same drivers as the big Heritage speakers. K55 mids and K77 tweeters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 That's a tricky question.... But, as GK said, many folks believe that the use of the K-55 and K-77 in the H-I's was what made the difference. Round about 1982-1983, the Heresy-I appeared with K-24 woofers (K-22's were no longer made), followed shortly after with the K53/701 horn midrange (K-55's were out of production). They compensated for the change by using a different crossover, the E2. They still used the K-77, but it was not the original T-35 Electro Voice K-77 that was used until about 1980. So, in the "IMHO" category, the H-I's produced until, say about late 1979 were considered better. The Heresy-II on the other hand featured the K-24 woofer, K-53/76 midrange and the new K-76 tweeter. These however were accompanied by a different crossover and the drivers were front mounted to reduce difraction problems with the old "rear mounted" drivers on the Heresy-I's. The first H-II's, for some reason, did not seem to be a "rich/full" as the H-I's. That being said, the later models were (IMHO) every bit as strong as the H-I's. A drawback to the H-II is that was constructed of veneered MDF as opposed to the furniture grade birch (and/or lumbercore veneered) H-I's. They are difficult to work with because in order to access the drivers, you have to pull them fron the front and they are "gasketed". The crossover is not easy to replace the capacitors because it's on a printed circuit board on the terminal cup,. But the greatest issue is damage to the cabinet. MDF is very difficult to repair if damaged, and especially if it is damaged and moisture intrudes into the MDF. It "swells" and you have to do major surgery. One issue that must be addressed with any of the "vintage" Heresys would be to replace the capacitors. After 15-20 years they are dried out and it's considered normal "maintenance" All that said, the Heresy-III with the K-28 woofer, etc, etc. is everything the previous versions had, and alot more. Greatly improved bass response; super high definition mids and tweeters, etc. Extremely well made. Drawback? They are expensive at about $1500 a pair. But well worth it if you can go that route. On all of them, finish is no reflection of quality. A "H-BR" (raw birch finish) is every bit as good from a sound reproduction point of view as a same year H-OO (oiled oak). Beauty is, however, in the eye of the beholder, and the more exotic the finish, the more expensive. I would recommend that if you are on a budget you look for a Heresy-I, vintage 1975-1980 (serial numbers will be XXPXXX through XXXUXXX), or a 1987 through 1990 or so H-II. Those serials will look like 87XXXXX or 90XXXXX, etc. Be careful before you buy one from someone not on the Forum. Look at pictures, etc. Average price on H-I's range from $300 to about $400, and H-II's generally the same. If you see what may be a good deal, ask on the forum and members will certainly chime in and help you out. Good luck and hope that is of some assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Now that the recommendations include a $1500 version (Heresy 3), one would seriously need to consider abandoning the Heresy idea entirely and think about used Cornwalls (about $600-800) or used La Scalas (about $1000-1400). In both cases, the sound would be superior to a Heresy, although they each have a different sound altogether. As always, it is easy to spend someone elses money and fill up their living room with much larger speakers... -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I strongly suspect that there were at least 3 different "voicings" of the Heresy I, especially if you go back to the early '70s or before. One, I hear, was intended as a center channel between Klipschorns, and may have been differently voiced than other Heresies. Later PWK decided that a fully horn loaded speaker, such as La Scala or Belle, would be better as a center between Khorns, and the Heresy took off as a popular and affordable Klipsch speaker that would be used in pairs, as what we now call "main" speakers. Odyssey Records (c 1973 - 78) in San Francisco had a bevy of them mounted throughout the store, and that made it the best sounding record store in the Bay Area! I have heard dull Heresy I's that don't sound very "open," and I have heard brighter ones that sound more like Klipschorns in the midrange and, especially, the treble. Even though every (or nearly every) Heresy I had the same drivers for midrange and treble (but a different mid horn, naturally) as the Klipschorn, different Heresy I versions may have different crossovers, some with the treble more cut back, I'll bet. You will probably want to replace the capacitors with new ones -- as you may know, capacitors change as they age. A set of Heresy I of about 1975 a friend had sounded great, and bright enough. The Heresy IIs (very different drivers & horns) I use for surround are great sounding (my wife once said she prefers them to our Klipshorns on some music) and they may be flatter, but less exciting, than my friend's Heresy I's. I suspect the II's are more forgiving of edgy recordings than are the I's. Look up BEC and Dean (and others) on the forum, and see what they say. I assume that Klipsch thinks that the Heresies have been slightly improved over time, with the Heresy I not as good as the II, and the III best of all --- unless some of the changes were made to avoid the very expensive drivers in the Heresy I, a relatively inexpensive speaker. Also since the Heresy woofer limits the efficiency of the whole speaker, there was little need for the extraordinarily high efficiency of the original mid and high drivers --- unlike in the Klipschorn, which still uses a version of both drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegro23 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 you guys are very helpful in providing all the information a heresy seeker would need on his journey. Im a little worried about that capacitor thing..if theyre starting to dry out it could be a reason for some ppl to sell..ill be aware of that. On the other note... the 1975 thru 1980's i believe is what im looking for. A good friend of mine compared the change from heresy I's to II's is like when the corvette went from the big block v8 to the small block in the 80's. I took his advice because he is a friend..And it looks like most of you agree the I's had the better gear under the hood Wish i could afford those III's...maybe someday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 .........And it looks like most of you agree the I's had the better gear under the hood...... Not better ... just different .... depending on your choice of source and amp .... you may never be able to hear the difference. Some say the magnets on the older Alnico drivers are not as strong ........ I'd put my KP201's (HeresyII components) up against a Heresy I in a shoot out and be pretty confident it could hold its own. Replacing caps is easy if you have any skill with a soldering iron .... about $60 in parts give or take .... if you can't do it ... plenty here who can ... find your speakers ... worry about the caps later. Most sellers will not know which crossovers are in their and wether the caps have been upgraded, so don't even ask ..... the guys here are a bit off the scale with knowledge and skills.... different breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 These guys gave great responses. You can do a search here & read for days, if you're so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudnClear Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I got my 79 Heresys last year. I was disappointed in the sound, very dull, dead and small. I replaced the 2 - 2uF caps with very basic crossover caps from parts express and my God, they came alive with all the piss and vinegar that my cornwalls have (except the bass, that's the corned beef). So as far as your corvette analogy goes, you MUST replace the caps in order to consider I's better SOUNDING than II's. Given that, you will have a well running big block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Here is perfect example of a Heresy I during the change over time. It is listed as a Vintage Heresy, and that is confirmed by the way the drivers are mounted from the rear ... and the back of the speaker is removable ....So it is definately a Heresy I But the drivers are NOT K77/K55 .... it has a K53 and looks like a K77 tweet ...77....weird ... so without even seeing the serial ## you can guess this one is right around 83'ish. Or some one has been monkeying with it .... http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/ele/585793472.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegro23 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 ya i see what you mean...and hes asking a premium dollar for it too..or close to it.......Theres an aquantince of mine i bought 3 pairs of klfs from him, he lives in san jose .... he has six pairs of heresys..hes willing to sell me a pair cheap because im a return customer. with the info i got here i can go threw his inventory and know what im looking for..... one thing i noted in the specs on these heresys...they dont get down real low in bass...somewhere in the 50;s...but have a 116db SPL accoustic output,,, im very interested in matching a pair up with a good sub that digs down low and hard...I think it will be an awesome set up to have..ive been missing out man i know it...you guys that have owned these vintage speakers have been enjoying some good music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I want the best heresys klipsch made..but i need some more advice...Heresy III's is what you want !!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Monte23; The one George is talking about is probably an '83. The best way to see if anyone has "monkeyed" with it is to check the crossover. If it's a type E, then it's "monkey business".... If it's an E2, then that would be one of the later H-I's. The SPL level to think about is the "1 watt at 1 meter" figures. The Heresy is 96-97dB level (dependent on model...), as opposed to the 104dB for Klipschorns (although the new ones are 105 if I'm not mistaken). The new Heresy does take it up to 99dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSUfbfan Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I am about to pull the trigger on some local Heresy's, and wanted your opinions. The serial has the "Y" in it, so they are a 1983 vintage with the K-77-M tweeter, but from what I am reading the midrange is not the K-55? I don't know if the picture will help any, unless the horns were visibly different. The crossover is the E-2 version. Thanks for any help/recommendations. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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