1080p projector help!

[InVeNtOr]

alright guys it looks like i will finally get my new home built! the bonus room is 20'x25' and it slopes to 9'. what i need to know is what projector i can put in the room and WHERE to put it. i will have an outlet somewhere in the celing but i don't know how far the projector needs to be from the screen.

here are some things i want the projector to have or be albe to do:

1080p

hdmi

scalier and zoom (that way i have no black bars no matter what "widescreen" dvd i have

i don't know what screen size to get, i was thinking somewhere around 106"?

any suggestions would help. i have no idea what or how to look for this info on projectos so maybe some starting points would be great.

thanks again to all

[EM3]

You may get more information than you want but try over at www.avsforum.com or www.projectorcentral.com

[JJkizak]

I have heard and read that the Sony ($35,000.00) is pretty good. But you want to be carefull on this forum about implementing automatic "stretchovision". But seriously, the key to a good projector is how many lumens it puts out and how good and big the screen is.

JJK

[sfogg]

How much are you looking to spend on the projector and screen? Budget will help narrow things down a little bit. Native 1080p projectors are available from around $2500 and up.

Make sure you have *total* light control in your new room. You need the room dark or it will wash out the picture.

Where you put the projector depends upon the projector itself. There is quite a bit of difference between the placement of various projectors based on their throw range and if they offer horizontal or vertical lens shift.

"scalier and zoom (that way i have no black bars no matter what "widescreen" dvd i have"

Keep in mind in doing this (if you use a standard 16:9/1.78 AR screen) you are going to be cropping some of the picture on 2.35AR movies. On some movies you might not notice, in others characters will literally be off the screen.

If you are thinking about black bars above/below the picture (on say Star Wars or anything else 2.35 AR) consider a constant height setup. This is what a movie theater does. You use a 2.35 AR screen (W-I-D-E-S-C-R-E-E-N) and your picture always fill the heigh of the screen. You just may use less width of the screen for your non-2.35 AR sources. Much more cinematic this way and you can easily mask the unused screen width with curtains if desired. Constant height is a more involved setup though with some additional complexity and potentially cost depending upon how you do it.

Also... with a 2.35 setup there are video processors out there which can take your <2.35 AR sources and perform a non-linear stretch to them so that they fill the screen all the time. The non-linear stretch leaves the middle of the picture alone and stretchs the sides more and more to fill the screen. Doing this you don't end up cropping anyone out of a 2.35 movie but you obviously introduce geometric distortions to your <2.35 sources.

Which way to go depends upon what you want and what kind of sources you expect to play on it. If you are just going to be watching 16:9 TV all the time the CH setup isn't worth it. But if you will be watching a lot of movies a 2.35 setup is impressive.

Shawn

[rplace]

Which way to go depends upon what you want and what kind of sources you expect to play on it. If you are just going to be watching 16:9 TV all the time the CH setup isn't worth it. But if you will be watching a lot of movies a 2.35 setup is impressive.
Shawn

Could not agree more. If you want the movie house feel you should seriously consider a 2.35 screen. IMO, the only way to go...anything else is just a big TV.[]

[kelA]

Again not sure what the budget is, but I would look into the Runco products if money is no issue. The Runco RS1100 with Cinewide options look pretty good and capable of doing everything you want. I have posted a link to their site with the Cinewide features. http://www.runco.com/cinewide.html

[InVeNtOr]

rigth now the buget doesn't exist. i won't be buying one any time soon. what i was looking for is how far back from the screen does it need to be mounted. i need to give those dimensions to the builder so i can have a plug in near buy. i did read on one projector that it had a range from 11' to 26', so i am assuming that i can mount it at around 15' and have no issues.

from what it sounds like i should have a screen that is 2.35. i don't know what that means but i bet if i call some manufactures and they will tell me.

i am a little fuzzy on what movies will fit that screen though. if i go with the screen size (2.35) then most of the movies i will watch will fit with no black bars? if the moves doesn't have that ratio, then i can use the scaler or zoom to make it fit just right? i don't want any distortion so i would like to know what is the best way to go. i know i will be unhappy if it doesn't work perfect.

[sfogg]

"i did read on one projector that it had a range from 11' to 26', so i
am assuming that i can mount it at around 15' and have no issues."

Bad assumption.

Each projector has a throw range which is a ratio of the screen width to projector mounting distance. This ratio varies a fair amount between projectors. And if you do not know what your screen size is going to be you have no idea where the projector is going to be mounted. Likewise without knowing what projector you are looking at you don't know the ratio you have to work with. Some projectors are short throw, some are medium, some are long throw and some have a wide range of zoom/throw options. Like wise without knowing the projector you do not know where the projector is mounted vertically in relationship to the screen. Some have lens shift, some do not.

"if i go with the screen size (2.35) then most of the movies i will
watch will fit with no black bars?"

Look on the backs of your movies. They will give the aspect ratio. See which ones are 2.35 and which ones aren't.

"if the moves doesn't have that
ratio, then i can use the scaler or zoom to make it fit just right? i
don't want any distortion so i would like to know what is the best way
to go. "

You can't have it both ways. If you fill the 2.35 aspect ratio screen on movies that aren't 2.35 you are introducing distortions to the picture. If you don't want distortions you will have black bars on the *sides* of the picture.

Shawn

[SCOOTERDOG]

Projectors and opinions are far and wide. Given this here are some of the things to consider.

Ok do I want LCD or DLP

LCD has greater flexibility because of the lens shifting capabilities. In other words if your projector placement is weird and you need to adjust the pic horizontal or vertical LCD's are much easier to work with. Some people say LCD's are tougher to dial in because you have 3 color panels to deal with. I have never owned an LCD and can go by only what I have heard. Black levels can be pretty good but some think DLP is better, can you see why this is tough. last but not least is bulb and noise. LCD's are pretty silent (no color wheel) compared to the DLP's. and bulbs are usually less money.

Ahh DLP. Well I have owned my trusty infocus 4805 for almost 3 years now. Although it is only a 576p it still produces a great picture. I'm getting off track.

DLP for the most part gives you out of the box Snap! great pic and detail and some say better black levels. These are the pluses of DLP. the down side is some say you get a rainbow effect but it depends on the pj and your screen. I have had it in the past with my old screen with some video content but I don't get it now with my new screen so I think this makes a big difference. DLP's are a little more noisy because of the spinning color wheel. The newer ones are much better but the noise is still there.If they are quiter then my 4805 then I'm fine with that. Bulbs tend to be more expensive too as a replacement for mine runs about 350.00. So when my bulb goes so does my pj and I will buy a new 1080p. Plus keep in mind no lens shift (some high end models do).

If you want to go with a CHS (constant height screen) for anamorphic 2.35 screen you will need to by an anamorphic lens. These start anywhere from $600.00 up to 10k.Then you have to ask yourself do I want a motorized rail for it, add more money. Don't get me wrong I would like to go with an anamorphic screen and lens but I think there are other methods that can be done to give you the same feeling and that would be a masking system. For me I decided to go with just a big 124" dia 16x9. Next you have to ask yourself do I want an acoustic transparent screen or not. I lived with a 106" non transparent screen for almost 3 years until I built my new one. Having the center on the floor is not ideal. Now that I have the new AT screen I have my center right dab in the middle behind the screen and it makes a world of difference. my screen gain is 1.2 and perfect for my room, thisis where you go over to the avs forem and hang out in the screen section and learn a little.

Right now there are a few hot machines that get a lot of talk, For 1080p I personally have been looking at the Optoma 80 DLP, Mitsubishi 4900 LCD and the Epson Home Cinema 1080. I am leaning towards the Epson or Optoma. I hate this sometimes.

Anyway there you have it from some one who thinks he knows what he is talking about.

scooter

[InVeNtOr]

alright, it seems i can't have them place an outlet in the right position unless i know what screen size and projector i will have. the problem is, i won't have the screen or projector for maybe a year after the home is built. i have money, but not that much...well anymore...lol. closing costs suck! lol

i may have them place it somewhere in the middle half toward the rear and hope i don't have to run a power cord half way around the room.

[falcon20x]

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-PAPH1qsZFUt/learningcenter/home/TV_placement.html

http://www.carada.com/

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_cinema_1080.htm

These links might help t answer some of your questions

[dougdrake]

Perhaps you could put in a few outlet boxes with blank faceplates, strategically placed, giving you options as to PJ placement...

[JJkizak]

The extra outlet boxes only cost pennies. Do this and be flexible.

JJK

[sfogg]

Don't forget you need more then just a power outlet... you also need video cables and maybe an IR flasher at the projector too.

If
possible have them run conduit with outlets are the various positions
you think the projector may end up at with the other end where the
equipment will be. That way you can pull the needed video cables into
place at a later date. At the bare minimum you would need an HDMI cable
and may need more then that if you don't have a receiver/pre-pro that
will convert all your video sources to HDMI.

Shawn

[bigdaddy]

I've had a projector and loved it. I agree with what has been said there are just too many variables to tell you an answer. Some projectors are designed to be usd where there is a long distance to the screen and throw a narrower image than projectors designed to be closer to the screen. You need to figure out which one you want to be able to know where to put the hook-ups. If you just guess you might end up with a picture that has a blacker border all the way around it. They do have some adjustment but not that much. Some don't have very much at all. You could do it in reverse and pick the spot for your projector then do the research and find one that will fit your needs. This can be quite a headache and if you misfigure you'll be frustrated. I hope this has helped.

[Tom Adams]

I’ll just echo the advice that many have said here and just add some commentary based solely on nothing more than having been there – done that (see the pic below).

Projectors….read and educate yourself at the various websites mentioned but heed this warning. HT projector technology is progressing so fast that they’re almost like PC’s. What you think is awesome today is surpassed in performance, and at a lower cost, by another projector in as little as 6 months – sometimes even by the same manufacturer!!! So if your HT project is on a 1 or 2 year horizon, don’t get too attached to any projector today. My advice would be to not spend big bucks on a projector because in 2 years it’ll be old hat. Just resign yourself to buying a new projector every 3 years just like folks do with PC’s. LOL Oh – and my vote goes to the Panasonic 1080P LCD’s.

I’m prejudiced when it comes to screens. After having done a dedicated HT room and seeing other rooms, if I had to do another one I would again buy a Carada screen (see Falcon’s post above for link). The folks at Carada are great to deal with and will gladly spend time answering your questions. Their prices are excellent and I’ve had more than one HT professional see my screen and comment that it was as nice or nicer than the big names like Draper, Stewart, etc. I’ve long been a skeptic about perforated screens, but today’s latest crop of projectors are bright enough that any loss through the screen is irrelevant. If I were doing a HT today, I’d design my “front stage” to not only have my front R&L mains hidden (sorry my beautiful Cornwalls), but I’d opt for a perf screen and put my center channel behind just like scooter did.

Screen gain….that’s something to consider too. There are various materials that screens are made from and they each have their own gain spec. In simple terms, gain is the amount of light reflected or not reflected. For instance – a 1.0 gain screen means that 100% of the light that hits the screen is reflected back. A 1.2 gain means that the light that hits the screen will be “boosted” (for lack of a better word) upon being reflected back at you. And a 0.8 gain screen means that some of the light that hits the screen will be absorbed. I’ve greatly simplified this, but I think you get the jest. And why would gain be important?? Well, because depending on how much light control you have in your room and the projector you’re gonna use, the screen material & gain needs to be considered. BTW – keep in mind that the bigger you go in screen size the more light output your projector will need to have in order to fill that sucker. Image resolution can possibly suffer too. The point being that bigger ain’t always better. Oh….and then there’s optimum viewing distance from the screen to your front row of seats to figure as well as the correct screen height and....sheesh…..I could go on & on…..

And speaking of light control….you need to noodle through that as well for the last thing you need are for those cool looking fixtures that you & your wife picked out washing out your screen image. Give some thought to having two or three “zones” for lights. That way you can dim each “zone” independently. And don’t get scared here. Having 2 or 3 or 4 “zones” of lighting is not that expensive or complicated. But now is the time to establish it since you have a blank canvas for wiring. Oh – and don’t forget wiring for automation. Nothing will make you grin bigger or have your friends call you “Da Man” when you’re able to control lights, projector, audio/video from the comfort of your chair. And achieving this is cheaper than you think.

And speaking of wiring….your dilemma of where to place the power outlet for you projector is not gonna be solved until you settle on the projector AND the screen size. Because as others have said - together, they both determine the projector’s placement. Can you place multiple outlets in the ceiling as someone suggested? Yep. But ask yourself this – will you be happy having blank cover plates over unused outlets in the ceiling? If so, knock yourself out. Me being a perfectionist, it would bother the crap outta me and looked like I'd goofed. If you can get above the ceiling, my advice would be to tell your electrician to pull a dedicated 14/2 run to a central location on the rafters, cap the wires, and leave a loop enough that you could take the wire 10’ in either direction. Then, later, when you settle on a projector and screen you can pop a hole in the ceiling, install an electrical box designed for renovation and call it a day. Besides, you’re also gonna have to run your HDMI or component cables to your projector too. So there goes another hole (box) in the ceiling.

Are you starting to see a pattern here with what all of us are saying?? For a truly good HT room, it needs to be synergistic IMHO. I simply cannot stress enough that one should plan, plan, plan, and then plan some more. And I’m not talking about fancy & expensive. If you have the money to make a really WOW theater – cool. But with enough planning you can have a very nice HT without a lot of expense.

Tom

[InVeNtOr]

tom,

you are right along with everyone. now i didn't think about just having the wires 10" longer and capped. that seems like what i will do. i am like you and having blank plates would drive me nuts. as for buying items for the room, all the non technical stuff comes first. i will try and save up for one big purchace for pres and pros and the projector. i drew up my room and like the look of the 112" 2.35 screen.

[Youthman]

Wow Tom! Excellent advice. I really appreciate it. I saved your post as a Word Document to save for when I plan out my theater room details.

[JJkizak]

They do have nice wood/plastic covers for those boxes or you could trick them up with recessed ceiling lights which you might consider anyway. You could also use the moveable 120 volt runnners. (Like they use on the track lighting) They can also hook onto dropped ceilings.

JJK

[IndyKlipschFan]

My best advice... Pick the projector first..THEN the screen! Call the projector people and ask them ask your dealer..and go on the various forums. But do NOT go cheap, they work together!!

You wanna do it before drywall so you can pull wires and electrical too!