la scala project

[paulV12]

hi everyone,

my name is Paul and i live in Australia.

25 years ago i heard some lascala's with kenwood L-0?? amps and was very impressed. i didn't like the harshness of the top-end much, but these speakers are something that i never forgot. the absolute tightness of the bass combined with the the enormous and clean SPL was incredible. I UNDERSTAND.

I am going to build some Lascala's from scratch, in inch(25mm) thick ply. I have done extensive online research in recent months regarding these speakers and the bewildering array of modifications people have come up with. most of these mods seem excellent to me, and accordingly i could end up with some really excellent speakers here.........all by just spending time researching on the net the thousands and thousands of hours people have spent measuring, testing, building and listening. This'll ensure my project will be successful. That i'm sure of!

The plan for these speakers is easy to adjust now as i haven't built them yet. this is why i"d like some advice or thoughts from you guys as i need to finalize at some stage or it'll never happen.

The in principle plans so far go something like this: woofer(cast frame) from Crites, Great Plains(rude bastards,but i wont tell them or no service)902driver, altec 511b(ebay), Alk es500t(built by me and all parts located) crossover.

the issues I have;

1):the 2x7" port bass mod, what do really think?? (I'll most likely put it in the tweeter/mid box as opposed to underneath if y'all think its a good idea)

2):Now i know AL K reckons 2 way for 511/902, but his 500t design(with another xover) allows for a 3 way. So i could buy the CT125 from Bob and put it in a metal horn, say, 171/?"wide Tuny Hark or equivalent(black plastic). Whatd'ya think?

3):I could also go 811b and K-55 or GP902 for the mid, and the Tuny Hark horn CT125 combo for the top and appropriate 3way Xover. I like the idea of a wide tweeter horn mostly for aesthetic reasons, as i can centre the mid horn and put a wide HF horn above the mid horn and create the appearence of two cabinets above the bass part if i route down both sides of the top cabinet.......a bit like Lascala ll, but one for the tweeter as well.

4):to me, if i'm spending $3-$41/2k the overall look of this speaker is VERY important. It must look as good as it sounds and vice versa. If i use the 511b horn i want to recess it just enough so i can flush fit a cane grille cloth and frame like original LaScala. Does anyone know if this recessing of the 511 horn I propose will wreck the nice sound and dispersion characteristics of this horn, because if it does, i may go to 811 horn and 3way? Either way I must have a flush and flat cane grille and i'd prefer not to build this "flush fit" the way a klipschorn has it. the lascala way or the highway........not really but trying to get you all to undestand my mission here. a home built speaker that must LOOK AND PERFORM excellently.

kenwood M2 pre and power, Akai 636 reel to reel, technics TT, Ortofon MC cartridge, Jamo concert 7 mains and home theatre projector, tv,, amps, amps and more amps subwoofers, speakers etc all far too numerous to mention here

thanks

paul

[Bill Cain]

Why not just buy a real pair of La Scala's? Save your money and end up with a quality item. I quit building speakers and amps in the seventies. YMMV.

[paulV12]

well because the idiot things cost $6000 new here and $USD and $AUD are equal, almost.

also the brand is not common in Australia, i want to build 1 pair of speakers in my life, and the originals are a bit rough.

Hell the company keeps building them that way, warts and all. What d'you expect! I have excellent speakers and i don't want to willingly pay money on something i know i wont be happy with and then have to fork out to fix them. i could build some corner horns i suppose, but they're too big for my house. i have so much hi-fi connected up i do not want to rearrange anything ever again.

that's why.

[JOHN GALT]

Your plan sounds grate (sp) we/all think you should start cutting!

[Islander]

All reports on the La Scala II fit and finish indicate that they are well put together and couldn't be called "utility finish", unlike some of the first series La Scalas.

If you're building from scratch, you might want to consider JubScalas. They'll very noticeably outperform even modified La Scalas, plus you'd only have to build the bass bins, then order the woofers and tweeters (no squawkers). Then you need the amps and crossover, but it really is worth it. That's what I've found. If you went with one-inch MDF and followed the LS II specs, you'd have JubScala IIs. Those would sound excellent!

As for the tweeters, whether they used the 510 horns or 402 horns, you could get creative and build enclosures for them that would give the finished look you're after.

[paulV12]

well i'd like to, but i'm smart enough to know when i need some help......hence the post

p

[paulV12]

JUBSCALAS forgive my ignorance??? but i haven't heard of these. a link perhaps?!

Its not so much the roughness of the cabinets i was referring to, more the sound harshness of the upper horns. it's all academic really as i only heard Lascalas once.

I really like the retro look of early la scala. I like the utilitarian look and style of the 50's, 60's, and 70's. it reminds me of my chilhood that. i want to have the joy of building them and recreating the era, as well as the benefits of having a really top notch speaker at the end. the joy i get from the speakers i now have has been going on since 1989. they just don't have the efficiency and therefore durability to be able to use for both vey loud music and valve amp use. i'll build some mono valve amps next year if(when) the la scalas work out. a bit like having your cake and eating it too!.......P

[Islander]

The JubScala (sometimes spelled JubeScala) is a La Scala, or just a La Scala bass bin, with a Jubilee tweeter. The Jubilee tweeter is a K-69A, used with either the 510 (small) or 402 (very large) horn. It's a 2-way design, rather than the LS 3-way design, but manages to sound much better.

Ther are many advantages to going that way. The Jubilee tweeters are a design that's about 40 years newer than the LS tweeters and squawkers, with a smoother and clearer sound. The Jubilee bass bin is better than an LS bass bin, but at 41 inches wide, it's bigger than many folks are comfortable with, so an LS bass bin and subwoofer give a reasonable approximation of the Jubilee sound.

The Jubilee is delivered without crossovers, since it's optimized for use with an electronic crossover in a bi-amped configuration. The recommended unit is the EV Dx38, which allows for a degree of precision in equalizing that's not possible with passive crossovers. As well, it has several built-in adjustable delay units, allowing the woofer and tweeter to be time-aligned at the push of a button.

It's also easy to tweak the sound to suit your personal preference and revert to original settings if it's not to your liking.

Not to be overlooked, this way you'd actually be buying something from Klipsch (the tweeters), who designed and build these great speakers and provide this very helpful forum.

There's lots of info on the forum about JubScalas, but you could start here:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/100243.aspx

[Islander]

the joy i get from the speakers i now have has been going on since 1989. they just don't have the efficiency and therefore durability to be able to use for both vey loud music and valve amp use. i'll build some mono valve amps next year if(when) the la scalas work out. a bit like having your cake and eating it too!.......P

Since you mentioned efficiency (or sensitivity as it's more often called), the Jubilees and JubScalas rate 108dB or more when used with the active crossover. They sound great at low volume, but can produce very high volume with ease.

[bluesboy]

hi everyone,

my name is Paul and i live in Australia.

25 years ago i heard some lascala's with kenwood L-0?? amps and was very impressed. i didn't like the harshness of the top-end much, but these speakers are something that i never forgot. the absolute tightness of the bass combined with the the enormous and clean SPL was incredible. I UNDERSTAND.

I am going to build some Lascala's from scratch, in inch(25mm) thick ply. I have done extensive online research in recent months regarding these speakers and the bewildering array of modifications people have come up with. most of these mods seem excellent to me, and accordingly i could end up with some really excellent speakers here.........all by just spending time researching on the net the thousands and thousands of hours people have spent measuring, testing, building and listening. This'll ensure my project will be successful. That i'm sure of!

The plan for these speakers is easy to adjust now as i haven't built them yet. this is why i"d like some advice or thoughts from you guys as i need to finalize at some stage or it'll never happen.

The in principle plans so far go something like this: woofer(cast frame) from Crites, Great Plains(rude bastards,but i wont tell them or no service)902driver, altec 511b(ebay), Alk es500t(built by me and all parts located) crossover.

the issues I have;

1):the 2x7" port bass mod, what do really think?? (I'll most likely put it in the tweeter/mid box as opposed to underneath if y'all think its a good idea)

2):Now i know AL K reckons 2 way for 511/902, but his 500t design(with another xover) allows for a 3 way. So i could buy the CT125 from Bob and put it in a metal horn, say, 171/?"wide Tuny Hark or equivalent(black plastic). Whatd'ya think?

3):I could also go 811b and K-55 or GP902 for the mid, and the Tuny Hark horn CT125 combo for the top and appropriate 3way Xover. I like the idea of a wide tweeter horn mostly for aesthetic reasons, as i can centre the mid horn and put a wide HF horn above the mid horn and create the appearence of two cabinets above the bass part if i route down both sides of the top cabinet.......a bit like Lascala ll, but one for the tweeter as well.

4):to me, if i'm spending $3-$41/2k the overall look of this speaker is VERY important. It must look as good as it sounds and vice versa. If i use the 511b horn i want to recess it just enough so i can flush fit a cane grille cloth and frame like original LaScala. Does anyone know if this recessing of the 511 horn I propose will wreck the nice sound and dispersion characteristics of this horn, because if it does, i may go to 811 horn and 3way? Either way I must have a flush and flat cane grille and i'd prefer not to build this "flush fit" the way a klipschorn has it. the lascala way or the highway........not really but trying to get you all to undestand my mission here. a home built speaker that must LOOK AND PERFORM excellently.

kenwood M2 pre and power, Akai 636 reel to reel, technics TT, Ortofon MC cartridge, Jamo concert 7 speakers and home thea

thanks

paul

hi everyone,

my name is Paul and i live in Australia.

25 years ago i heard some lascala's with kenwood L-0?? amps and was very impressed. i didn't like the harshness of the top-end much, but these speakers are something that i never forgot. the absolute tightness of the bass combined with the the enormous and clean SPL was incredible. I UNDERSTAND.

I am going to build some Lascala's from scratch, in inch(25mm) thick ply. I have done extensive online research in recent months regarding these speakers and the bewildering array of modifications people have come up with. most of these mods seem excellent to me, and accordingly i could end up with some really excellent speakers here.........all by just spending time researching on the net the thousands and thousands of hours people have spent measuring, testing, building and listening. This'll ensure my project will be successful. That i'm sure of!

The plan for these speakers is easy to adjust now as i haven't built them yet. this is why i"d like some advice or thoughts from you guys as i need to finalize at some stage or it'll never happen.

The in principle plans so far go something like this: woofer(cast frame) from Crites, Great Plains(rude bastards,but i wont tell them or no service)902driver, altec 511b(ebay), Alk es500t(built by me and all parts located) crossover.

the issues I have;

1):the 2x7" port bass mod, what do really think?? (I'll most likely put it in the tweeter/mid box as opposed to underneath if y'all think its a good idea)

2):Now i know AL K reckons 2 way for 511/902, but his 500t design(with another xover) allows for a 3 way. So i could buy the CT125 from Bob and put it in a metal horn, say, 171/?"wide Tuny Hark or equivalent(black plastic). Whatd'ya think?

3):I could also go 811b and K-55 or GP902 for the mid, and the Tuny Hark horn CT125 combo for the top and appropriate 3way Xover. I like the idea of a wide tweeter horn mostly for aesthetic reasons, as i can centre the mid horn and put a wide HF horn above the mid horn and create the appearence of two cabinets above the bass part if i route down both sides of the top cabinet.......a bit like Lascala ll, but one for the tweeter as well.

4):to me, if i'm spending $3-$41/2k the overall look of this speaker is VERY important. It must look as good as it sounds and vice versa. If i use the 511b horn i want to recess it just enough so i can flush fit a cane grille cloth and frame like original LaScala. Does anyone know if this recessing of the 511 horn I propose will wreck the nice sound and dispersion characteristics of this horn, because if it does, i may go to 811 horn and 3way? Either way I must have a flush and flat cane grille and i'd prefer not to build this "flush fit" the way a klipschorn has it. the lascala way or the highway........not really but trying to get you all to undestand my mission here. a home built speaker that must LOOK AND PERFORM excellently.

kenwood M2 pre and power, Akai 636 reel to reel, technics TT, Ortofon MC cartridge, Jamo concert 7 speakers and home thea

thanks

paul

How about something like this.........

[bluesboy]

Another view...........

[bluesboy]

One more............

[Marvel]

the issues I have;

1):the 2x7" port bass mod, what do really think?? (I'll most likely put it in the tweeter/mid box as opposed to underneath if y'all think its a good idea)

Depends on who you talk to. The majority who have tried it like it very much. If building from scratch, it is easy to enclose the top section and put the ports out the back. You could build a top hatch for the top of the 'dog house' to revert to the regular LS internal volume if you decide you don't like it, and no one would be the wiser.

2):Now i know AL K reckons 2 way for 511/902, but his 500t design(with another xover) allows for a 3 way. So i could buy the CT125 from Bob and put it in a metal horn, say, 171/?"wide Tuny Hark or equivalent(black plastic). Whatd'ya think?

The CT125 (drop in replacement for the K77) doesn't need to be in that large a horn. It would serve no purpose. Bob's plastic horn, which was made as a drop in for the K77 horn works great as is. Or you could get the Eminence APT-50, the same driver as Bob's and mount in whatever horn you like. The APT-200 is the driver and bi-radial horn. You might like it, but Bob's works really, really well.

3):I could also go 811b and K-55 or GP902 for the mid, and the Tuny Hark horn CT125 combo for the top and appropriate 3way Xover. I like the idea of a wide tweeter horn mostly for aesthetic reasons, as i can centre the mid horn and put a wide HF horn above the mid horn and create the appearence of two cabinets above the bass part if i route down both sides of the top cabinet.......a bit like Lascala ll, but one for the tweeter as well.

4):to me, if i'm spending $3-$41/2k the overall look of this speaker is VERY important. It must look as good as it sounds and vice versa. If i use the 511b horn i want to recess it just enough so i can flush fit a cane grille cloth and frame like original LaScala. Does anyone know if this recessing of the 511 horn I propose will wreck the nice sound and dispersion characteristics of this horn, because if it does, i may go to 811 horn and 3way? Either way I must have a flush and flat cane grille and i'd prefer not to build this "flush fit" the way a klipschorn has it. the lascala way or the highway........not really but trying to get you all to undestand my mission here. a home built speaker that must LOOK AND PERFORM excellently.

Both the 811B and the 511B have a radius that extends substantially out past the front of the oounting flange. I think you will have a problam in recessing the horn to be able to have a flush front grill. It will be back inside a tube. You will also be getting close to the depth of the cabinet once the driver is mounted. The 811B has an 800Hz cutoff, so you would need to redo the crossovers and hope the basshorn will extend high enough to cover it. 600 to 650 is probably esily doable.

kenwood M2 pre and power, Akai 636 reel to reel, technics TT, Ortofon MC cartridge, Jamo concert 7 speakers and home thea

thanks

paul

Welcome to the forum

Do you have the pdf of the dimensions that we have posted here before? They are extremely accurate for the original LS with 3/4 inch ply.

Bruce

[greg928gts]

One more............

That's got to be a nice sounding setup bluesboy. Have you tried turning the bass bins into the corner? I did, and WOW. It depends on the room though.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/104054.aspx

Greg

[thumperxes]

Build it. Go For It. I Did heres my link to my project if it helps any. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/59662.aspx?PageIndex=1 the only thing i wish that i did was to make the sides 1" mdf ah maybe if i run across som more veneer i will till then i will jusht have to enjoy mine. I would of probaly made it two peice also. i have a pic of how i glued the dog hous when i run across it i will post it

[WMcD]

well because the idiot things cost $6000 new here and $USD and $AUD are equal, almost.

also the brand is not common in Australia, i want to build 1 pair of speakers in my life, and the originals are a bit rough.

Hell the company keeps building them that way, warts and all. What d'you expect! I have excellent speakers and i don't want to willingly pay money on something i know i wont be happy with and then have to fork out to fix them. i could build some corner horns i suppose, but they're too big for my house. i have so much hi-fi connected up i do not want to rearrange anything ever again.

that's why.

I agree with Paul in principle. Paul, take no guff!

One thing I've learned is that you should never challenge an artist when he is "in the groove" on a project. Let him go with the flow.

I'm reminded of a commercial for asprin on U.S. television from decades ago.

A young woman is trying to cook something and apparently her mom is there giving unwanted advice on how the young woman is not doing, whatever, correctly.

The young woman, suffering a headache, explodes, "Mother, I'd rather do it myself."

Smile,

Gil

[Arky]

Yeah, lets have another jubscala thread. They really sound very very nice. I'll have a pair when I grow up.

[JohnA]

Hi Paul!

Welcome!

If you use 1"/25mm plywood, preserve all of the internal dimensions. In fact, the rectangular slot beside the dog house could be a bit wider. AS an alternative, you can put in side braces like the HPS-4000 Model 525 uses. *If* you make the slot wider, look at corner reflectors like a Peavey FH-1 uses. They increase high frequency output from the bass horn.

The 902-8B/511B does not need a tweeter, but you will have to build eq into he crossover to shave off a 106/107 dB hump from about 600 to 2k Hz. The down side is that the 902 can only take abut 15 watts. I recommend crossing to the 902 at 600 to 650 Hz and 18 dB/octave. That increases power handling a bit, and keeps the diaphragm from buzzing. You will want to damp the 511B with Dynamat or rope caulk (window sealing putty that never hardens). They ring like a telephone bell.

As for the ugly factor, I had my La Scalas finished professionally because they were a bit rough. We covered the front edge plys with a 3/4" x 3/4" strip of cherry and stained the cabinets with dark mahoghany and covered that with satin polyurethane (I had young kids at the time). I did not install the bace I mentioned as I had not proved they needed it and now they are too pretty to muck up.

[paulV12]

thank's Bruce and John i do.

there is a 15 hour time delay so things could get a bit strange with my replies. i'm an insomniac though and sit up most nights till about 5.30AM

EVERYBODY THANKS FOR THE VERY WARM WELCOME.

i'll have to modify them for 1" though. some of the measurements will alter, but i've heard if your going to the trouble of building them yourself you might as well mage 'em inch thick. I found some new 1" plywood sheet 1200x2400x25mm(4x8x1")seconds for about $44 as opposed to $150EA for cleanskins.

the seconds will work ok for my 50/60's theme(don't tell anyone but just quietly $150 is F***ing ridiculous)! MDF is exactly half at $75 a sheet, cleanskin, but then i'll have to do something to make it look like wood, not compressed sawdust. i do understand MDF is great for speaker building and a woodworker friend of mine even said that there are techniques employed more than 100years old for painting cheap wood in a particular way to look like expensive wood.ie oak.

P

[paulV12]

john,

you say the 902 is a bit low on power. Do you know what the 908 is like power handling wise?

some bloke on ebay said in a product description for a 902 that he was selling, actually, was a 908, and this was much better because it(908) had double the power handling. is that true? is it sonically interchangeable?? or just spin. The 902 i'm considering is the Great Plains if that is important.

ALL other 902's i have ever seen advertised S/H on ebay have been at least 1.5-2 ohms lower than spec. I don't exactly know what this means soundwise except to say "they aint gettin' my money".

nice pics. i really love the look of la scalas.

again, i have to reiterate the roughness i was referring to earlier was about the harshness of the top end. i quite like the utilitarian look of la scalas and i want to recreate the retro look of these speaker without all of their anachronistic faults.

P