How to properly restore wood on 76' Lascala's

[wsu99999]

Hello fellow Klipsch junkies,

I am fairly new to this and I recently purchased a pair of 76 Lascalas in need of some fixin. They were covered with wallpaper and paint. I have stripped them of the paint and wallpaper using very mild chemical removers and the wood is in excellent shape except for two things.

1. There are a few spots where the wood is light (almost white).

2. Overall, the Lascala's look "dry" and have almost no reflective surface as others I've seen.

I don't know if this is because there is still glue from the paper on there, OR if the chemicals took away their shine, OR if age took it away.

My question is what do I do to get the lighter spots to be colorful and how do I get the wood to look new? I have done NO sanding, and I assume if I did so, the lighter spots would even out. When liquid is applied to the lighter spots, they look identical to the rest of the speaker, almost as if they are just dry.

Should I sand the entire speaker to get down a bit in the veneer or is there an oil or wax that is prefered by forum members? Please point me in the correct direction - this is my first refinishing project and any suggestions are appreciated.

[kb5obw]

Hi, Bill here and I am new to the group also. There is a lot of good advice here. You will need to know what the original finish was. I believe the modle # can tell you this. I have done some refinish jobs in the past but by no means an expert. If you have completly stripped all of the paint and the original was oiled walnut, all you may have to do is lightly sand with the grain using fine sandpaper or steelwool.After that simply rub in some lemon oil.There are other oils that will work too. I am sure others will give you some input. If the original finish was laquer you may need to clear coat the finish and the color will even out. Please wait untill some of the experts out there chime in . They can shurely help out. Good Luck. Bill

[Guest " "]

WATCO rejuvenating oil is popular.

I use it both thinned and straight out of the can.

Others mix a very small amount of their favorite stain with it.

Linseed oil is also popular. I'm less fond of linseed oil since it yellows pretty bad with direct sun light.

If the dry white look is almost velvet or fuzzy looking it's likely to be a side effect of the chemical removal process. In which case, sanding will result in the loss of a lot of wood...no wood gum to act as a bond between the wood fiber.

Best bet is to get some scap birch ply and apply your chemical to it. Once it looks like your cabs, try different approaches of finishing and decide which you like the best.

[Marvel]

If your LS have the labels, they will tell you what the original finish was on the cabinets. The birch LS cabs came in raw (no finish applied) and with a laquer finish. Most who got them in raw form, then applied their own finish (boiled linseed oil being the most common. It penetrates the woold, and self catalyzes, sealing the wood, but does tend to yellow with age). Some used paint or laquer, while some may have had a polyurethane put on them. The poly is pretty much a man made version of the linseed oil with the benefit of not yellowing. Other oils provide similar finishes, each with thier own pluses and minuses.

Bruce

[WMcD]

Hard to say.

As pointed out by others, LS were sold in various forms. Some had no finish IIRC. These woud be BR for Birch raw.

It may be that the reflective surface you have seen in other units were finish with lacquer. Maybe BL?

Gosh, wall paper?

My guess is that these started life as BR and then the owner did those evil things.

You describe that the surface evens out when a liquid is applied. I trust that is something like mineral spirits. This is a fairly common test to see how the wood will look with a varnish type finish.

If I was in your situation, I would sand lightly with very fine sand paper (sanding with the grain) with a sanding block (important, this sanding block). Such will be necessary to ensure a clean surface. I think you'll be getting back to their native form.

Where you go from there depends on the color you want.

I'm going to disagree about Watco Rejuvinating Oil. Speaker Fritz and I may have discussed this on the forum. It is just un-boiled linseed oil IIRC.

Everyone says the same thing. You have to experiment. Let me suggest that the bottom hatch is good place to do so. No wallpaper there, I trust. It is possible that the sanded upper parts will react like a sanded bottom hatch.

My understanding is that brush-on water based clear finishes (Minwax and others have this) are very much like lacquer in that they do not darken or even warm the wood. It is impossible to predict the effect on the white spots and whether things will match overall.

Gil

[wsu99999]

A few more questions for everyone that has been so helpful.... When I'm sanding, what should I sand down to? Should I sand all of the existing color off (I believe these were finished Birch as there is some color in the wood). Should I go down below that layer and restain?

I have read on here that staining the wood is undesireable. Honestly, I would like a dark red wood finish, I just think the dark red/brown would look beautiful with the speakers. Why do others discourage staining the wood? Does it effect resale value (not that I will ever sell these)? Will there be any negative effects by staining the wood?

[Brac]

There is nothing wrong with staining to a color you like. I would suggest you don't sand through the veneer, nothing good could come from this!!!

[wsu99999]

I'm not talking about sanding through the Veneer, just sanding the top layer off of the speakers. I know the Vaneer IS the top layer, but I just mean sanding all of the color off the speaker, leaving the vaneer, just taking the top layer of the vaneer off.

[kb5obw]

That vaneer is really thin. If there is still paint or some other finish on the cabinets, I would use some stripease or some other chemical stripper along with some 0000 steel wool removing what is left. After all has been removed, let dry and lightly sand just to smooth out. Dont sand too much. Use the bottom of the cabinet where its not seen to try your desired stain. Only after putting a clear cote on will you see the real finish.Hope this helps a little. Good luck, Bill

[wsu99999]

Just curious - what does the wood look like underneath the veneer? Will it have a different knot pattern? I'm trying to determine if I've already sanded through the veneer.

[Blvdre]

Underneath would be a non-finish grade ply, probably pretty ugly.

[wsu99999]

Just to be clear - it would be obvious that I sanded through it?

Will the wood pattern on the plywood match the woodpattern on the veneer? For example - If the Veneer has a large knot in the design, underneath the veneer in the plywood, the knot will not be there - right?

In other words, if I've sanded and I still see the same grain pattern as was originally there I should be ok right?

[PrestonTom]

Slow down......

If you sanded through top veneer it would be obvious, especially once it gets oiled or stained.

If you are trying to remove stain, sanding the veneer or top ply is not a good way to do it. A chemical stripper is better (unless it is truly a veneer on top, since it could de-laminate). If it is not too late please consider the following if you must sand. Use a sanding block, use a very fine grit paper, avoid any sort of power sander (unless you are fairly experienced with it) and don't overdo it.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Groomlakearea51]

wsu9999: From your description, they were likely BR and may have had nothing applied other than the wallpaper, etc. The reason I say this is because if they were oiled, laquered, etc. the water would not spread evenly, it would form a puddle due to the surface tension.

The white spots very well could be the wall paper glue which is water based. Before you start sanding (or if you have already started STOP for a minute) and get a damp rag and wipe the white spots to see if it appears they come off, or lessen. It won't hurt.

How do you know if you have sanded too far? there will be a layer of what appears to be a flat brown showing. That is/was the glue that held the top layer of veneer. If you have hit that layer, then you are through the veneer and need to rethink your final finish.

Chemical strippers will remove surface layers, but seldom will remove a oil based stain or the lacquer that penetrated the wood (if it was brushed on). Sprayed lacquer penetrates less because it's drying time is so fast.

Once you have the cabinets sanded as best you can, consider a gel type of stain that actually leaves a thicker layer above the surface of the wood. It's really a "glaze", and once dried may cover up alot of the imperfections you have been unable to remove. Once you have gel stained them you will probably need to sand them very lightly and apply a polyurethane finish, but may want to use one with some coloration to further hide the imperfections.

Just some thoughts.

[WMcD]

I must agree there is danger in sanding too much. It is possible, in theory, to sand through the top layer of veneer.

On the other hand, I have sanded units which I've built out of birch ply from HD and a specialty shop. The latter was Woodworld in Plano or Richardson, Texas, BTW. Good stuff there.

I would not hesitate to use a sanding block with very fine paper. I've never sanded through the top veneer. On the other hand, the paper backed veneers are paper thin veneer and I did ruin one of those because of a bump in the glue underneath. UGGG.

Also, power sanders can be a real danger and so you have to exercise caution with those.

One thing that can go wrong with hand sanding is that at the edges of the piece there is a decrease in the contact area, and increase in pressure, and that is where you can run into problems. A sanding block prevents that. You have to keep light, even pressure and take care not to bend it over the edges.

Many store bought blocks and home made ones use 1/4 sheet of paper. That gives you a block about 3 inches by 4 inches. Not bad. However, a better approach is to set up a block to take 1/2 sheet. This means you have more area. You are sanding with a longer block. Therefore there is less danger of bending it over the edge if you keep, say 75% of the long block on the surface during the strokes..

= = = =

This sanding (with very fine) is important because it will remove any residue of the stripping process. The residue will cause the paper to clog at first; assuming it is present. When the surface is clean you will get clean sanding dust. Do buy a pack of very fine and change it out when and if it clogs. Sandpaper is actually the cheapest part of the project. .

My comments about water borne finishes were based on the assumption you want something with no stain and as light as possible. People here have used stains which get closer to walnut or mahogany. Never quite the same but closer. HD has Minwax families including sanding sealers, pre-stain sealers, stains, and varnish. I like the wipe-on varnish. That is different than water based.

Patience is everything. As I always point out, you have to practice on some scrap pieces first. Again, the bottom hatch is a possible training ground if you have nothing else. I got very good results on projects doing one hour every night for a week. You can't do that in seven hours in one day.

Gil

[PrestonTom]

"......

Patience is everything

....."

Gil: Truer words were never spoken.

In fact I was at Home Depot looking for a bottle of "patience". They did not have any. So I went to Lowes to get a can of "elbow grease". No luck. I'll try the drug store tomorrow for dose of "common sense".

Anyhow good luck on the cabinet re-finishing. These projects always take longer then you envisioned.

-Tom

[wsu99999]

OK - I started the project, have the top of the speaker completed, and sanded down all the way to really fine sandpaper. When I look at the top of the speaker now, there are small scratches all over the place. It's really bad. I've went back and tried sanding more and more but the scratches either come back or it creates more. How do you get rid of the scratches or does the stain just clean it up

[PrestonTom]

Re: Scratches

1. use a finer grit sandpaper

2. Only sand with the grain and not across the grain (very important)

3. Stain will usually not hide the scratches. Rather, the darker the stain, the more noticeable they become

4. If the scratches are deep, you may have limited options.

-Tom

[wsu99999]

I will just have to put some more elbow grease into it i guess. Why is going with the grain so important? I did it that way, but what difference does it make?

[Blvdre]

Think of the grain, or wood fibres, as (mostly straight) hair. You want to sand with it, not across it, in order to reduce scratching. You will achieve a smoother finish this way. It sounds like you may have used a fairly course grit sandpaper, that's why you're seeing scratches. You need to sand with progressively finer grit(s) until your finish is smooth, being careful not to take off too much material.