Guest David H Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The AP12-500 crosses over at 500 Hz. It's pushing the low end of the squawker horn a bit but you might be able to get away with it. The 600 Hz version is the right thing for the Cornwall. You certainly could try it for a while to see if it makes the sound you want and later exchange the AP12-500 for an AP12-600 . Both designs are on my web site for DIY projects. Al K. Al, Peter has my Fastrac Cornwall horn in his Cornwalls so the ES-500 should be perfect for his application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Jeremy, Yes, the EE5800 is compatible with the K-79 or any other tweeter where the tweeter is 8 ohms and has MORE or equal senstivity to the rest of the speaker. The ES500 low crossover would work too if you can swallow the cost. The ES600 too. The low crossover is really determined by how low you can push the squawker horn and driver. ES networks let you safely shove it lower without damage to the driver. Just be sure the horn will function below it's ratings. The Altec 811b horn, for example, will go down to 700 Hz nicely to spite its 800 Hz ratings. Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 In my own meager experience most horns seem to be rated with a 12db/octave slope in mind. Therefore when a steeper slope (IE: 24db) is employed the squawker will indeed go lower with no problem. That makes Al's ES networks great at squeezing all the goodness out.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Jeremy, Yes, the EE5800 is compatible with the K-79 or any other tweeter where the tweeter is 8 ohms and has MORE or equal senstivity to the rest of the speaker. The ES500 low crossover would work too if you can swallow the cost. The ES600 too. The low crossover is really determined by how low you can push the squawker horn and driver. ES networks let you safely shove it lower without damage to the driver. Just be sure the horn will function below it's ratings. The Altec 811b horn, for example, will go down to 700 Hz nicely to spite its 800 Hz ratings. Al k. Thanx Al, that is great to know. I wondered about the ES600 as well thanx for clearing that up too. I really need to contact you off the forum about a DIY project I have been dragging out for years, and see how your networks would apply. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj01 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Al, Does your es5800 need to be used for the high-end? Or could you use a Universal connected to an AP12-600? Or could a couple of values be changed on the Universal to move the woofer/squawker to 600Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Cool thread -- awesome work Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Al, Does your es5800 need to be used for the high-end? Or could you use a Universal connected to an AP12-600? Or could a couple of values be changed on the Universal to move the woofer/squawker to 600Hz? Any of those could be done. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Yeah, but you need the ALK Engineering decoder ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 What kind of cereal do I need to buy to get the ring? I am able to resolder broken connections and change the caps in a crossover but this design and tweeking stuff is over my head. I want to learn but when I read stuff like hz, uf, and slope stuff it is like I have been drinking all day and my brain stops. What should I do, if anything, to my ap12-500/es5800 crossovers before testing them in these cornwalls with gothover horns and the following driver senarios: 1. ct125, K57, K33 2. K77m, K57, K33 3 ct125, K55v, K33 4. K77m, K55v, K33 5. K77, K57, K33 6. K77, K55v, K33 I spent several more hours listing last night with the alk designed B network replacement, ct125, k57 and k33. I really like the sound it is hard to believe it could get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The only changes needed to try the AP12-500 + ES5800 in a cornwall is to change the transformer settings. It depends on which drivers you have and your personal taste where to set them. Start with taps 1 - 4 on the AP12. That's where the fellow has his set. I am not sure about the ES5800 tweeter setting, so start with 0 dB and cut it down as needed for the CWII. I think -5 pr -7 dB for the original Cornwall. I don't know about variations on drivers. I suggest you bring the cabels from each driver out the bass port with the network sitting on the floor and play with the settings before you install it. Keep in mind that the crossover should be 600 Hz on the stock Cornwall and you can't move the crossover on my networks without totally rebuilding it. Oh yeah, the ring. Try Cracker-Jack boxes. Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Progress on the grills. Copied the first grill from the motor board, cut close to the line with a jig saw then finished with the router. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Crossover testing. The AP12-500/ES5800 sounded very good. Best so far...detailed...bright with the la scala settings. Brought down the tweeter to -5db. much better. I will play with "taps 1-4" tonight after I read ALKs online and instuctions and figure out what " taps 1-4" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Testing position. After the testing the long awaited black paint and wood finish will commence. I am hoping to buy or borrow some K52 adapters to compare to my homemade K57 adapter is use now. A second set of modified adapters is on the way from gothover for K55v testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Pete, Taps 1 - 4 is roughly 7 dB atteuation. You might also try 0 - 3 for 6 dB. That's the setting I used on my original Cornwall network and where Klipsch put it on ther "B sereis" networks. All this depends on you squawker horn, driver and personal taste though. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Progress on the grills. Copied the first grill from the motor board, cut close to the line with a jig saw then finished with the router.Nice work on the grills. BTW I am loving that TT as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Pete, Taps 1 - 4 is roughly 7 dB atteuation. You might also try 0 - 3 for 6 dB. That's the setting I used on my original Cornwall network and where Klipsch put it on ther "B sereis" networks. All this depends on you squawker horn, driver and personal taste though. Al K. Al, Tried the db settings. 7 db is the one. Very nice integration and the layered depth of the soundstage is markedly better. Very good integration. I never believed cornwalls could compete with la scalas but these are much better in my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Driver Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Picture of the stcker Picture of the stcker Picture of the stcker pardon the ignorance what's attached to the speaker wire terminal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Pete, The improved stereo image is the extreme-slope ES5800 working for you. Without the interaction casued by two different drivers playing the same sound from two different places your brain can "compute" where stuff is located propelry. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Those gold plated things are terminal adapters that are used to attach banana plugs or thicker wire. See the parts description at http://cgi.ebay.com/8-Banana-Spade-Fork-Plug-for-Fisher-80-202-Eico-Dynaco_W0QQitemZ120448581734QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0b4b8066&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Still in trials. Got some modified adapters from gothover and dropped in the K55v driver with the the ALK ap12-500/ES5800, Crites tweeter, and stock K33. The ALK taps were set at 7db attenution and the tweeter jumper was set at -5db. These were the settings that sounded good with the k57s. The K55v had a thicker sound. More energy in the bass. I think I prefer the K57 given the same settings. Any suggestions on the setting that might improve the sound of the K55v?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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