Cut-Throat Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I am thinking about replacing my Klipschorn Tweeter with a T500 Fostex Tweeter Supposed to be a large improvement. (it should for the price). I am currrently using a Modified Type "A" (schematic below) for a crossover. Can someone tell me the mods I would have to make to put this tweeter in? Would I need to attenuate it differently also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Ask BEC or DeanG about what you should adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I am thinking about replacing my Klipschorn Tweeter with a T500 Fostex Tweeter Supposed to be a large improvement. (it should for the price). Too bad if you already bought it. I don't think it's a good choice. There's not dispersion characteristic and most bullet type tweeters are too beamy (drilling your ears with drill bits). There's a better tweeter for the Khorn for a LOT less money. Email me if interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 I am thinking about replacing my Klipschorn Tweeter with a T500 Fostex Tweeter Supposed to be a large improvement. (it should for the price). Too bad if you already bought it. I don't think it's a good choice. There's not dispersion characteristic and most bullet type tweeters are too beamy (drilling your ears with drill bits). There's a better tweeter for the Khorn for a LOT less money. Email me if interested. No, I have not bought anything yet. I did get an opinion of these tweeters from a guy that builds custom louspeakers that is in direct conflict with your opinion. But, that's not unusual in Audio. His company is KCS loudspeakers and he is a SET amp devotee. He has also spent a lot of time modifying Klipsch Speakers. Since I am also a SET amp fan, I took his opinion seriously. But, just post your opinion of the tweeter you like. 'm sure others would be interested as well. Thanks for your opinion. BTW - Lots of folks say that S.S. amps can be like 'drilling your ears with drill bits' too, maybe those tweeters may not be too bad with a SET amp. Who knows, I have not heard them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 No, I have not bought anything yet. I did get an opinion of these tweeters from a guy that builds custom louspeakers that is in direct conflict with your opinion. But, that's not unusual in Audio. His company is KCS loudspeakers and he is a SET amp devotee. He has also spent a lot of time modifying Klipsch Speakers. Since I am also a SET amp fan, I took his opinion seriously. But, just post your opinion of the tweeter you like. 'm sure others would be interested as well. Thanks for your opinion. BTW - Lots of folks say that S.S. amps can be like 'drilling your ears with drill bits' too, maybe those tweeters may not be too bad with a SET amp. Who knows, I have not heard them. Well, at 1.5 Kilobucks for a pair of tweeters, sound unheard, you may as well be playing roulette in Vegas. You asked for my opinion, so here it is. One of the big issues with any speaker, including Khorns, is that for any given driver, the dispersion angle (polar pattern) narrows with higher frequency. You are looking at a 110 db tweeter, which will need to be padded down about 5-6 db to mate with the Khorn midrange. It's achieving this by way of a narrower dispersion angle, probably 40 degrees, which is typical for bullet tweeters. Also, what is the point of a curve beyond about 18-20 Khz. when everything in the system, including your hearing (if you are over 30) is a lowpass filter below about 16 Khz. I was using 100 degree JBL "baby cheeks" with my Khorns and their efficiency (at 105 rating) was too strong still had to be padded down 1.5 db to sound "right." They gave a wonderful "micro tinkle" of details. I was very happy. I also used them with LaScalas on top of my MWMm's. I also used Bob Crites CT-125's in my LaScalas, and those were better than the stock Klipsch tweeter also.........I just preferred the wider pattern of the JBL's. When I went to my currnt "MWM Stack," the efficiency went from 104 to about 108/109 range, so now the JBL 2404's were too weak relative to the rest. So I discovered the B&C DE-10 drivers with the ME-10 horn. They are 107 db drivers, flat to 18 Khz. and with that 90x60 degree horn, mate PERFECTLY with my new setup. You can get a pair from Parts Express delivered to your door for less than $140. You can return them if you are not satisfied. Heck, I'll buy them from you if you are not satisfied. I'll be getting more for my 7.1 in progress.............yes they will still need to be padded down for you, but you can buy a few L-pads with the $1,300 you save. Meahwhile, I'll be selling off 2 pairs of the excellent JBL 2404's which are flat to 19 K and "used to be" the best for a Khorn ;>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 Thanks for the details, I will look into them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The recommended crossover for the Fostex T500AMKII is "more than 7kHz (12dB/Oct.)". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Recommended for dogs and bats who can hear from 10Khz. to 100 Khz. on special DVD-only program material sampled at 192 Khzand appropritately low pass filtered.................we woudn't want to offend them with digital noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Would you maybe add them at that higher xover point to "top up" the K-77's, like Sam Tellig did in Stereophile with (I think) another super-tweet? A cautionary tale where matchups are concerned -- I decided against the Crites tweeters on a subjective basis because they rendered a more detailed sound than the standard mid, and I was uncomfortable with the continual contrast in character between the more detailed tweeter highs and the midrange. I felt this contrast even extended down into the bass and the bass horn. It also seemed to have a different frequency drop-off to the sides than the K-55/K-401 did, so I was bothered by the sense of different treble frequency responses as I walked around the K-horns. In that regard, the K-77 fits like a glove in the AK-4 system. This is just to say that I thought there were several aspects to the tweeter matchup thing, at least in my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Would you maybe add them at that higher xover point to "top up" the K-77's, like Sam Tellig did in Stereophile with (I think) another super-tweet? Man, that would be a real expensive "cherry on top" at over a kilobuck and a third.............wew! I'd rather just get the B&C's at aabout 1/10th the price and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 I really liked the Beyma CP-25's when I tried them on the "Mkhorn" Whatever you choose, it's always good to be able to attenuate them and the mid-horns. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 The Beymas are the closets thing to the JBL 2404's and can be had New for the price of Used JBL's.Beyma seem to have somewhat cloned the JBL offerings (no longer made) with less robust construction, but equivalent sound. I hear nothing but good news about their tweeters. However, the B&C is half the price of either and has a polar pattern that's workable in a Khorn at 107 db efficiency, so, yes they need to be running off tap 3 or 4 on the autoformer or shipped with a $5 L-pad.Since Parts express has a good return policy, seems like a no-brainer to give them a try. Either way, I'd like other opinions on the B&C's, since I'm letting loose on the secret here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 I placed my order for the B&C's yesterday. I'll give them a try next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 I placed my order for the B&C's yesterday. I'll give them a try next week! Me too, got 3 more. Lots of channels to feed these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 Me too, got 3 more. Lots of channels to feed these days. Hey! - This is the TWO Channel Forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 Either way, I'd like other opinions on the B&C's, since I'm letting loose on the secret here. When I went to the Parts Express Website there was a Review on there from "Magnetar" aka Mike Bates who was a frequent poster on the Audio Asylum. Mike knows horns and he gave this Driver and Horn a big thumbs up. That's what sealed the deal for me as he has tried more drivers than I care to. So I have no doubt that this is a great combination. Whether I can get it set up right and hear the difference is an entriely different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 http://www.bcspeakers.com/download/prodotti/PDF/DE10.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Me too, got 3 more. Lots of channels to feed these days. Hey! - This is the TWO Channel Forum! Yeah, yeah, yeah.................but I use a 6.1 receiver in 2.1 mode, since I only need milliwatts of power to drive my 2 main RL Front with huge horns (except the subs) and I listen to the system in 2.1 most of the time? Clean electronics, no noise, wide bandwith, low cost, high efficiency, and I can turn OFF all the channels I don't need. So, you can never say "Never the twain shall meet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Either way, I'd like other opinions on the B&C's, since I'm letting loose on the secret here. When I went to the Parts Express Website there was a Review on there from "Magnetar" aka Mike Bates who was a frequent poster on the Audio Asylum. Mike knows horns and he gave this Driver and Horn a big thumbs up. That's what sealed the deal for me as he has tried more drivers than I care to. So I have no doubt that this is a great combination. Whether I can get it set up right and hear the difference is an entriely different story. It's really not difficult to set up correctly as you will have to attenuate "to taste" and you can change your mind. You WILL hear a difference, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Kevin, that tweeter is down enough in sensitivity where you're crossing over that you might not have to do anything to the crossover. I suggest just trying it without changes first. You don't listen very loud, so the bit of elevated output on top might work well for you. If it sounds too hot, just drop the tweeter down to tap 3 along with the squawker (yes, you can do that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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