edwinr

Wow! I was trying to read through this thread and ran out of steam at page 12! What about a JubBelle? Similar specs to a LaScala. Anyone got any pics of such a modification?

Hmmm. That would be a shame if this is truly the case. Maybe that's why Klipsch has replaced the Sub-10 and Sub-12 with the SW-350 and SW-450!

Those two sentences imply a logical contradiction, or a misunderstanding. "Headroom" is only meaningful if it gets used. If you are using the "headroom" above the 5W, then clearly you need an amplifier bigger than 5W. If you are NOT using it, you don't need it. There's no in between or maybe to it. When I suggest you should know how much power you need, I mean how much TOTAL power, not just how much average power. Sure, if you mostly listen at an average power of 5W (which is quite high on horns), you will for darn sure need a much larger amp than 5W. You have to account for peak power and for dynamic range when you figure your power needs. Then it's not the right amplifier for you - that's easy. The power is severely limited. So, if you need to exceed it, that is a prima facie argument that it is the wrong selection. If I said, "My problem with with the Prius is that it won't tow my boat," you'd laugh at me right? Of course that's a problem - the Prius is not meant for towing boats. Well, more generally than that, the best way to use them is to keep them operating within their design criteria. So, more efficient drivers and lower volumes both help to achieve that goal. Since everyone else is quoting - I'll do it too! Okay, Mark, you're kind of making sense. The peak power thing works for me. If I think about it, it would be rare given the swings in a musical signal for ANY amplifier to output it's continuous power rating. And regarding the complex load that many speakers exhibit, to what extent does the crossover influence the ability of a SET amplifier to go loud(er)? I am thinking that the crossover does have a major influence, and this may be why some SET users favor single driver designs such as those manufactured by Fostex and others.

It would be interesting to see the return statistics of the Synergy compared to other similar products. I searched the forum and there have been several people complaining about quality control issues - mainly with the amplifier module. But my argument is that Klipsch has manufactured and sold thousands of the these subwoofers. I know it's easy to get the impression that lots of people are having issues because these very people (and correctly so) post their woes on this forum. If I had an issue, I would post too. But how many thousands of people have had no issues? If you look at the statistics vis a vis the number of Sub-10s sold compared to the number of reported faults, you may find that the Sub-10 is no worse than other brand name subwoofers. Also, I think it is very unfair for someone to announce they will never buy Klipsch again because of an issue with one or two products. I have owned Klipsch gear most of my life. I have never had any issues that have not been resolved to my satisfaction. Believe me, there are many brand names on the market that do not offer the support that Klipsch offer. At least these guys care a little. And they are all as passionate about music as we are. P.S. Just in case you are wondering, I am not employed by Klipsch and they did not pay me to say this stuff...

I haven't read the whole thread, but If you know you only need 2 watts, you can't just design/buy a 2 or 3 watt amplifier. At home my current tube amplifier punches out around 18 clean watts per channel. I know I probably only use say 5 or 6 watts during normal listening sessions. But if my amplifier was only 5 or 6 watts per channel, where's the headroom? I know a little four cylinder car will hold the same cruising speed as a larger, V8, and use less fuel. But the big 'ol V8 will be just so much smoother and more pleasant to drive. While we can argue about the relative merits of SET vs PP, my big problem with most SET amplifiers I have heard, is the lack of power and drive. In saying that, most of the SET amplifiers I have heard sounded really nice within their very limited power envelope. I guess the best way to take advantage of the very low powered SET sound, is to use them with extremely sensitive transducers. In larger rooms playing fairly dynamic music, will my Belles be sensitive enough? Maybe a pair of Avantgarde Trio's with their 109db/watt sensitivity may be a better match... So I agree, you cannot fairly judge any amplifier unless you factor in what loudspeaker you are going to use. My 'little' CEC Classic Tube 53 sounds awful on my study's little bookshelf monitors (Wharfedale). If I had originally heard this amplifier on these speakers, I would never have bought it!

Wow!. Some of you guys expect a lot from a budget sub. These things are punched out in big quantities to keep the price down and let those on a budget have a taste of true high fidelity sound. You just can't utilise the kind of quality control you would expect from individually hand built products like the Heritage or Reference range of speakers. In saying that, there is no reason why the sub's problems can't be sorted for very little expense. Replacing the sub amplifier sounds like a good option. Just to put your situation into perspective, other manufacturers have quality control issues too. I recently owned a pair of ATC SCM50 active studio monitors for a year. These things are VERY expensive and are used in many of the top line recording studios in the country. I had problems with these speakers from day one, with one speaker making intermittent clicking and cracking noises. I had this speaker back to the technician for warranty work four times. Each time the technician kept the speaker for several days. This speaker was so heavy, I couldn't trust a courier. So I transported it myself with each round trip to the workshop taking several hours. This was very frustrating. Eventually the problem was fixed. While the ATC's sounded absolutely fantastic when they worked, I had reached the point where I was fed up with them so I sold them. Now I just use my Belles. P.S. I also own a Klipsch SW-450 subwoofer. I've had no problems with it. Why not replace your Sub-10 with a SW-450?

Craig... How many SET amplifiers have you owned? [A]

I agree with the comment about some Denons being a little bright. Although this only really applies to the less expensive low to mid range models. The up-market Denons are very nice. I have yet to hear the new Yamaha range.

That's... very good, jacksonbart!

I would choose the Marantz. Reviewers have raved about it and frankly, the Marantz leaves it's competitors in the dust...

At first blush, putting HT in the bedroom sounds kinda weird. But I guess my wife and I often watch a movie or TV series (like True Blood) at night after the kids have gone to bed. Maybe a discrete HT in our bedroom wouldn't be a bad idea. The Klipsch HD Theater 300 would fit nicely... Regarding inexpensive subs, careful installation will reap dividends. I have spent hours fine-tuning my SW-450, and I now cannot tell when the sub stops and the Belles start. All I feel and hear is room shaking bass.

Most so-called 'high-end' cables are a blatant ripoff. In saying that, some more expensive cables feature good quality connectors. For those that plug and unplug often, good quality connectors can be a deal breaker. Also some more expensive cables just look better. Now if you have your cables on display, aesthetics can be a deal breaker too...

I remember my KLF 20s only had 4 wood screws to hold the drivers in. I have to say though, they did the job. I'm surprised at the size of the RF-7 II driver magnets. In fact the whole driver looks very substantial. In fact, the driver looks as meaty as those in my old ATC SCM50 professional monitors!

The SW-450 is very good for the price. I bought mine last month and I have hooked it up to my Belles. While they may lack the very lowest bass, they have plenty of punch to shake the room.

Not at all. On the contrary... This thread seemed to have died but a few of us, OK, maybe only me, are/is still patiently waiting to find out what you meant by "On the contrary..." I wouldn't read too much into Amy's comments. An online dictionary suggests that Amy in mentioning 'contrary' may be advancing "...a proposition so related to another proposition that both may not be true though both may be false, as with the propositions All judges are male and No judges are male".

You're going to have to use the speaker level inputs on your sub, probably from the main output from the receiver. Your receiver's sub output is probably mono or 'summed', so not being a stereo output you would only be able to connect to one of the SW-450's inputs (that might reduce your gain). Maybe you could buy a new a new surround sound receiver if this bothers you...

The only way you can make a transistor amp sound as good as or 'like' a tube amplifier, is if it is designed from the outset to drive highly sensitive horn-loaded speakers at the lower power levels such speakers require. There are some really good solid state low power amplifiers available. Check out Nelson Pass's website. I like the English DNM range. Their PA3 power amplifier @ 27 watts per channel is a beauty...

Doesn't Klipsch offer an upgrade package? Or is that the AL-3 you guys are talking about?

I wonder if Klipsch ever contemplated a horn-loaded subwoofer?

I trialed the SW-450 at home for a couple of days. I was impressed. It goes very loud, with plenty of punch and extension. And suprisingly, it keeps up with the Belles. I have ordered a new one for delivery next week.

I'm still looking for a sub to go with my Belles. Unfortunately the DSP-1400 doesnt have a speaker level input anymore. In fact none of the new paradigm subs have a speaker level input. I'm a bit wary buying from an internet store. So that rules out SVS etc. I've heard good things about the Sub 12 as well, but I can't get this model anymore. The replacement is the SW-450 of which I've posted about. I'm borrowing one this week to have a listen. If this sub works okay, I'll buy it. Recently I've started to move away from spending too much money on fancy hi fi stuff. I borrowed a REL Strata. It sounded okay but for the money, it didn't really keep up with the Belles. I need something with some punch. I don't want to spend money on boutique brands with a fancy finish. After all, the sub only has to go woof, woof a few times to add some depth to my Belles for movies and some music. And it's not rocket science to make an inexpensive sub sound good. So it looks as though Klipsch will be selling me a new sub...

Cool cars!

I have owned Heresy II's. They never sounded like you describe. I have 2005 Belles at the moment. Much as you don't want to hear this, It has to be an amplifier mismatch. Lots of poorly designed modern amplifers and receivers are voiced for cone speakers with a reticent midrange and these amplifers tend to blare when used with highly sensitive speakers at certain volume levels. Your Heresys are not reticent in the midrange and I recken they are simply high-lighting a tonal imbalance. I think when you advance your amplifer volume, maybe you are striking the exact worst case scenario of cross over and other distortion for your amplifer. With less sensitive speakers this little 'window' of bad sound from your amplifier wouldn't fall where you want to listen. Don't junk your speakers. See if you can borrow another amplifier - either s/s or tube so you can re-evaluate your speakers. How old are your speakers? Have you run them in?

None of the super mini subs go low. Or if they do, it's at very reduced spl's. Big box/big driver means you need a smaller amp/smaller money and much better lows...

I heard the SW450 recently. This sub is the sleeper of the Klipsch lineup. It doesn't look much - no fancy veneer - but properly placed into a corner, this thing punches well above it's price...