KT88

At best, "warm" in my understanding means.....no, let's not say "warm" because "warm" can also mean it doesn't hurt your ear but it's like lukewarm coffee. Actually, it can mean full body without ugly peaks but at the same time differentiated, dynamic, with timing (and therefore emotional tension), colorful and powerful. At least that's what I would expect. At the same time, I accept a certain "fingerprint" that tubes generally have (but which can be kept in check by a good circuit). Don't transistors also have their fingerprint? No one should say that transistors are "objective" and tubes are "discoloring" as a general statement. Especially since there are so many different types of transistors and the many circuits. If I liked a transistor I would take it too, it's not a matter of dogged belief in one camp. It always depends on the environment e.g. of the circuit. If everything is taken into account then you can actually say if you like one tube better than another. And fortunately we are all a bit different with various tastes. I would also always give each tube a week before it has settled in and before I have adapted. "Warm" is a hint of a direction but not a guarantee of unconditional liking.

Yes the LS3/5a is really inefficient and as I said only good in smaller or small rooms. But they sound even really good with not so high powered old tube gear like Quad II amps. Over all I also prefer my old Lascalas.

The behavior in the bass of the Lascala reminds me of the behavior of my LS3/5a (regardless of manufacturer). I love both speakers. Both have no low bass but both have this hump at 120 or 130 Hz. Some don't like it but to my ears it creates the warmth of sound even in the midrange that makes both speakers so irresistible. Here who likes it people talk about their LS 3/5a. There are really parallels of the sound. https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/getting-to-know-ls3-5as.249810/ The big difference is of course that a LS 3/5a sounds perfect in small rooms. The Lascala likes larger rooms. It is also to differentiate whether I hear the "hump" in the bass at 120Hz or whether unsightly room modes overlay this additionally.

In the photo, the Lascalas are angled in similarly to how my Lascalas are angled in my home. I have made the experience that the Lascala reacts very sensitively to a few degrees of angulation. Too little and it has no spatiality. But too much and it loses stage width. The best case is when I have a wide stage, 3 dimensionality and a defined center. I achieve that with a similar angle as in the photo...so not too much...maybe a very tiny bit more, depending on the listening distance. Just looking at the front of my two Lascalas it's too much angulation for my taste, I see enough of the inside walls. It's worth finetuning within a smaller angle range. It may be that in the photo both Lascalas are angled evenly. The photo was not taken exactly from the center and camera lenses of an iPhone, for example, can produce such illusions. But I agree, the secret of a three-dimensional sound experience is an exactly equal angulation of both LS.

To be honest I don't know if it's a real desire that your beautiful vintage Lascalas should sound like a modern AL5 Lascala. There are so many recommendations and advice on what to change and improve. Of course, modern AL5s sound also very good out loud. Your vintage Lascalas sound especially good soft to medium loud. For example, if you like your Alnico K77s then keep them. I'm definitely keeping mine. All modern drivers and horns may be an improvement or modernisation. But my now 62 year old ears like Alnico. I have temporarily installed K77M in my 1977 LS because the original Alnico K77 are being restored, magnetised and new diaphragms. The K77M ceramic magnets sound much less emotional to me, and psychoacoustically this impression extends to the whole sound, not just the highs. At the very least, I would keep all the parts and compare them from time to time with the so-called improvements.

Very good work and visible quality, Georg. I read this book (link below) 20 years ago. It has controversial ideas but it was very entertaining to read. Only meant as a supplement for those interested, not as a counter-proposal. The cable cookbook by Allen Wright. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/cablecookbook.htm

In my view the K402 can benefit from every bit of energy down low. But the TAD is also fine at normal living room SPL.

It is also always a game of matching voltages. I love the sound of my C22CE pre. But modern sources or players often have a relatively higher output voltage than before. But below 9:00 the volume control sounds thin and slightly distorted. The input tube obviously doesn't like such a strong signal in the circuit either. From 10:00 o'clock the C22CE begins to sing musically. For this I turn my Bluesound Node as a variable source of the C22 a little quieter. Sometimes it is very subtle matching requirements to achieve the most beautiful sound. Even if I am aware that I may not fully exploit the digital resolution of the Node. But the overall result is very pleasant in this arrangement.

They went from Node 2 to Node 2i…and the 2021 model is named just Node without a number.

The 2021 node has a different chip. I use its internal DAC and go via chinch into my C22CE pre. The new Node is a very significant increase over the Node 2i when using the internal chip. I don't know if there is any difference between 2021 Node and Node 2i when using an external converter. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/bluesound-node-2021

These are fantastic looking Lascalas. I wonder with what (nonsense) these great speakers were replaced in the church. There often seem to decide about decluttering people who have no idea. Imagine you had been there a week later and the Lascalas would now be in the bulky waste.

The 2021 node has a different chip. I use its internal DAC and go via chinch into my C22CE pre. The new Node is a very significant increase over the Node 2i when using the internal chip. I don't know if there is any difference between 2021 Node and Node 2i when using an external converter. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/bluesound-node-2021

all

After two and a half satisfying years with a Bluesound Node 2i, I have a new Node (without amp) since June. I am totally thrilled, it is worth every penny. A real jump from the 2i and also with fantastic tunein sound. MQA Tidal is now clearly audible and more emotional and spatial than with the 2i, the difference to CD quality is now clear. You will have a lot of fun with your 2021 Node.

It's good to hear your refreshing and decisive view on caps. I would like to contribute to your position from my point of view. The old caps of the original AA xover were motor run caps. I learned that too. But what is important about the xover is not that they were motor run caps, but that PWK found them to sound good and therefore used them. Perhaps the purchase price also played a role. It may also have been that PWK was not so happy with other capacitors in its day in the 50s and 60s. Now it was the case that these motor run caps were polyester caps. The fact that they are dipped in oil for cooling plays a role in their use as MRCs, but not in the xover (except perhaps that the liquid coolant may also dampen vibrations well). I can attest that polyester caps sound much more balanced in my Lascala than polypropylene caps. It is not imagination. The polyester caps sound much like my original motor run caps used to, which have been out for 16 years due to be leaking. There do seem to be differences, primarily related to the different ESR. Another hint, who uses motor run caps today as a replacement, e.g. from Genteq, must know that these caps look exactly like the old Aerovox in the tin cans, but they are polypropylene caps. Maybe someone knows if there were already dry polyester caps around 1950 or 1960...or what alternatives PWK would have had e.g. paper in oil or other caps. I don't religiously follow a precept but I personally felt when listening why I use what I use in caps. I do not prescribe anyone to do the same but I invite everyone to experience the comparison for themselves in the comparative test, it costs fortunately very little

😱

This is a funny thread. And it has great evidence from my point of view. Because all the conversations about a hi-fi dealer (whose videos even I know in Germany) and European cars show only one thing: complete satisfaction with the Klipsch Forte 4 after the happy owners all enthusiastically described their speaker. If it were not so, then perhaps we would talk about less good aspects and not about cars. The best award the Klipsch Forte 4 can get.

I have a pair of TAD 4002 neodymium, but there is the TAD 4001 which has Alnico magnets (My question was thought initially if there are cheaper alnico alternatives). I love the Alnico sound and perhaps I can sell the 4002 and would buy used 4001 even for using them with my K402. Is a 510 horn with a 2“ or 1.4“ throat? It would be cool to use the TAD without the adapter which is so long and narrow guiding, not really for tractix horns intended.

On the one hand, it is a very great and kind help that there is a forum like this. I have read the thread and I really understand all sides that are presented here. It is much easier in this day and age through modern communication, etc.. But that we have a hifi dealer where we can listen to certain brands and products together, seems to be increasingly rare. In addition, you often have huge distances in the US. I can choose between quite a few hifi dealers because we have a big city every 100 to 200 km. Still, most of the good demo opportunities are in the past. And...not every dealer borrows 1000s of dollars heavy and fragile tube amps for home testing. Just to pick a few aspects. And please forgive me, it is my very subjective opinion. I write based on my experience of 45 years listening, building speakers (earlier) and gradually growing into the thing...also for 30 years with tube amps (for 45 years tube guitar amps). I would give the tube amp a chance but by no means! blindly buy something or anything. It's like any subject, from afar it looks clear but when you approach it can quickly become a whole cosmos. Just read here in the forum the tubes section how crazy it must sound to a newcomer when discussing long plates, short plates, rough series, smooth series, vintages, brands, licenses under other brands, etc.. Tube amps are actually exotic as a category, but within this world there are again exotic among the exotic. I would avoid them being new. That means: no brand that is not known, no tubes that are not easy to get, no circuit principle that only highlights certain aspects. In my opinion, the best choice in your case would be a tube amp that a) has an integrated preamp (to be sure that the power section gets a controlled driver signal…not just your cd players output), and b) is equipped with popular tubes. Then it should be a push pull pentode. This sounds special but it describes the most common circuit. Because many other tube amps don't have enough power to cover a wide range of music. Even if the CW4 are very effective, I would recommend at least 20 watts per channel (but it doesn't have to be more!)...for the entry level. Only if you want to tickle out certain characteristics (holographic sound etc.) you can buy a 2.5 watt amp later. But the 20 watts make sure that there is enough power available. I have no experience with modern brands, as I only have 50 to 60 year old European tube amps and my now 20 year old tube Mcintosh. But what I keep reading about, which seems to be a very reasonable and affordable and reliable brand that meets all the conditions I listed above, comes from Holland in Europe, the brand name is Primaluna. There seems to be quite a few of these in the USA so there is a used market. and believe me the used stuff is not bad but the previous owners want to enjoy the rush of the increase. Another aspect. Remember that tube amps need some attention, and that depending on the device and the number of hours the power tubes can last a year or 4 years or even longer. Think about entering this world of tubes, i think it's worth it, but i can say absolutely nothing about electronic music and tube amps. i don't know what matters there. fullness, space, colorfulness, emotion probably likes any kind of music. but e.g. a dry deep fast bass is more a transistor domain. I wouldn't think obsessively in categories either. Does it have to be a tube amp? Aren't there also very good transistor amps for the same money that fit your music preference? Even with the transistor amps there are very attractive devices. Not to make any irritation here, there are just as big differences in transistor amplifiers as in tube amplifiers. There are good transistor amps and bad tube amps and vice versa. One should give all the same chance of the test hearing. A buddy has one of those newer Yamaha integrated amps that are pure analog with Klipsch speakers (columns I don't know the type). It's really fun to listen to and sounds very musical. Or some of what Steve Guttenberg recommends, Pass, Shiit etc. I can also imagine that some transistor amp is easier to ship for test listening than such a very heavy tube amp, where the tubes can break. To wrap it up...I can't think in quantities. what "are" those 4% beyond your 90%? It's about the feeling of the moment of happiness, about a spark being created, and a pleasant satisfaction and anticipation of the next evening. And that it's the music you love to listen to after the honeymoon is over, where you love to listen to the new stereo. If this additional 4% creates this leap in quality, then it is the four essential percentages. Just saw this thread about happy Heritage Klipsch owners and a transistor amp brand.

Looks cool, I would like to hear your system in comparison to my old Lascalas. It could be a good mix of both worlds, my 1977 Lascalas and my 2008 Jubilees. As I posted elsewhere here I love the Jubilees but the Lascalas just include my medium sized room (5,3 x 5,8 meter) into the sound reproduction. I am looking forward to read about your listening impression. If money would be no object, is an alnico driver existent which fits the K510 horn?

Even if I personally do not have the experience. If you like the Khorn at lower spl before you sell them I would try a B&C D120 driver based tweeter from Dave A or Crites. Don't change anything else. It's very possible you'll like the Khorns very much loud with it too. Why I intervene, you will hardly find another speaker that can be so good loud, not even Tannoys. And buying these tweeters (leaving everything else as it is now) would be a great opportunity for small money in my view. As I said, your xover should already be able to allow greater volumes. It would be a relatively small investment. I hear from your descriptions and all your previous speakers that you are very "tweeter spoiled". It wouldn't be a big financial risk because you can sell the original Khorns and there is a big market for the new tweeters, at least here in the forum where you can also advertise. I have considered exactly this option for me personally for the future, but first I am on the way to reconstruct my 1977 lascla completely original (two steps missing) before I will do similar experiments because I also like to listen very loud from time to time. You won't get such a bass fundament anywhere else. All direct radiators do not have this force, energy and speed as a klipsch bass horn. Believe me, the step back to other speakers will caress your soul at first but you will miss that experience, even if you have 18“ direct radiators and 1000 watt amplifiers, it will never have that lively foundation. The issue is that the K77 tweeter is a very ambivalent story. on the one hand, it fits perfectly with the klipsch sound, its impulse, its radiation behavior, that's what i love about the K77. On the other hand it is the culprit for this effect that it can get shrill and aggressive when it gets louder. It is the K77 that - after several evolutionary stages - even if I find the very early alnicos the best - was finally exchanged for a completely new tractrix tweeter development by Roy Delgando in the current Khorns and Lascalas. But the K401 squaker horn remaines with great success. BTW I don't know all the devices from your list but Khorns love tube amps.

rooze, welcome to the forum. Similar to you, I am familiar with quite a few different speakers over the last 40 years. BBC LS3/6, Quad ESL57, Alnico Tannoy Canterburys, LS 3/5 to name a few. All these different speakers have their specific strengths and their specific weaknesses. The best allrounder is probably my Klipsch Jubilees with TAD 4002 drivers since 2008, but the Jubilees need a bigger room than I have to integrate the room into the sound, or otherwise as in my case you get a sound impression that is very impressive but doesn't include the room...like a huge very cool sounding headphone where everything is right in the sound...but without including your room. In other words, you slip into the recording but the music doesn't blend with my small room that measures about 5.30 meters by 5.80 meters. I enjoyed that for 10 years but I took a step back and use my 1977 Lascala, which basically have the same squaker and tweeter as your Khorns. The Lascala (as well as the Khorn squaker and tweeter section) are much smaller than the Jubilees and the sound marries with my room. For me personally, that is an important characteristic that sound reproduction should have. (I will keep my Jubilees but I am waiting for a bigger room in the future to run them again).There are 16 years between your and my speakers and they have different crossovers etc. E.g. I suspect you have those EV ceramic squaker drivers. BTW today Klipsch uses the same alnico drivers in the Khorn as Atlas did in the 70s. To make it short, I can understand your irritation very well, because I experience it very similar. To describe the status quo, my 1977 Lascala are the best speakers I've ever had for not listening to music too loud. It is perhaps paradoxical because many people believe that a Klipsch heritage speaker can play very well loud. But my experience is that it plays best soft to medium loud. Actually not much louder than a normal direct radiator. Only, the Lascla does it much better. The dynamics are overwhelming, the sense of space and at the same time the physicality. Maybe this is the secret. Many speakers that can do 3D space have too little body and many speakers with body have too little sense of space. The Lascala and the Khorn deliver both...and so effortlessly. But it quickly becomes shrill and unpleasant when it gets too loud. In my case maybe even more than with your xover because I have the AA xover which has even less steepness at the midrange. The rule of thumb is the higher the slope of the crossover the better it sounds loud. but the smaller the slope the better the sense of space, impulse, integrity and timbre when listening softly. What can you do. First of all, i would start with seemingly trivial things. change the rubber rings that sit between the squaker driver and its horn. that can make a lot of difference. And then, either you go the classic way and you build yourself an (easy to make) AA crossover with new Atlas drivers (the same alnico as before your EV driver was used) today they are called PD5VH, as Klipsch uses them again today. (BTW your xover was developed as the following network because the EV driver is louder). This way does not make them probably less shrill when playing louder but even more detailed when playing at lower to mid spl. The next point is the tweeter. There are many alternatives now...also here in the forum. But I am still very emotionally attached to my Alico K77 (your 1993 Khorns have ceramic magnets K77, but that is not the cause of your impression that it can quickly become shrill, only the alnicos I prefer sonically). So the alternatives re tweeters of Crites or Dave A may allow high volumes without sounding shrill, but I do not know them personally (yet). There is a large group that favors an active DSP control but I personally love it passive and analog. An alternative might be a modern tractrix horn as a two-way system, but that would most likely be digitally active again. What I wouldn't do is replace the capacitors to polypropylene types because they have a higher Q and they can make the horns sound even shriller.

First, congrats to your new to you LaScalas. Just my very subjective two cents. Islander writes that his tweeters were weaker or not equally loud. His 1974 LS have Alnico tweeters that can lose magnetic energy over the many years. Your 1992 LS tweeters have ceramic magnets that do not weaken. I personally prefer the sound of the alnico magnets in the tweeter for quieter sound levels, but that's another story. I had Crites CT125 but I returned to the K77. Currently I have the K77 ceramics as an interim solution because my original alniko are being remagnetized and getting new diaphragms. I find that despite some disadvantages, for example a hiss, the K77 (whether alnico or ceramic) fits much better to the overall sound of the LS. Impulses come more in one piece or, for example, an acoustic guitar has more energy in the treble...not because the K77 would be louder than another tweeter but because the radiation pattern is so well suited to the rest of the speaker. Who has old LS, like me (1977) or Islander (1974) had to renew the capacitors because the original ones were in a cooling oil which has leaked. But your 1992 capacitors should still be really good (unless they are electrolytic). There is a lot of discussion here about the choice of capacitors. Klipsch uses polyester caps up to the very modern models. I went back to polyester caps in my LS after having had polypropylene caps ruefully and happily. You can't say type A is better than type B in isolation. The caps Klipsch used in your xover have very specific values e.g. for ESR which are important for the functioning of the whole network. A supposedly "better" cap can mess up the impedance values of the entire xover. This can turn out well, but you enter the realm of try and error without meaning to. My point is that quite a few people believe that the manufacturer would save money exactly on the capacitors and it would be an easy way to improve the performance of the whole speaker by using different caps. Ok, maybe the manufacturer has chosen cost reasonable caps, but he has designed the crossover based on that! At least as serious a manufacturer as Klipsch is. If the caps would have to be renewed I would advise to use the same type...because "better" can be worse. Take the „Q“ of a capacitor. The K400/K401 being a horn likes a smaller Q of the capacitor because it softens the filter curve and the horn does not become shrill in the upper cutoff frequency range. A polypropylene cap has a larger Q than a polyester cap. It is similar with the K77 in the lower cutoff frequency range. In case your xover should use protection diodes for the tweeter, I would take them out of the circuit if you don't want to sound a stadium. Without diodes the speaker sounds silkier and more detailed. I would loosen all cable contacts at the input and outputs of the xover, clean them with alcohol and tighten them again. This is often a very amazing improvement after all these years.

Thanks for reply, boleiro. Now these Kemets (and the Nichicons) are really cheap fortunately. If you listen to them I'm glad to hear your report. And I'm very curious how the sound might change when you later install perhaps these JEM caps when they become available again. I think the character of the caps should be quite similar. But I'm mainly interested (besides the differences when using the exact uF) in the difference if using two 6.8uF in parallel deviates from the original ESR of only one cap and if that is audible.

Marvel, thanks for reply. This is the link I mentioned and of course it does not work any longer. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/76770/757339.aspx#757339 I would guess that community.klipsch has taken over everything, no thread is lost...except probably old photos. The thread below e.g. I found quickly using google search: site:community.klipsch.com DJK site: means that google only looks at (in this case) community.klipsch.com