bkevind

Definitely distinct differences between A and B.

Is this bypassing the tweeter then?

I seem to have become addicted to looking for heritage Klipsch. Still have an itch to scratch with Heresy. They go quick on my local CL, but I noticed a pair of HIP-2 for sale. Will be taking a look at them tomorrow. I will probably put them in the garage assuming all goes well. Perhaps a fitting place for them.

This does seem a little odd to me. The PC-2000 should best the 12sw in all frequencies and volumes, with much cleaner and controlled output. I suppose if the 12sw has some exaggerated boom for more perceived bass that could be at least a part of what you are hearing. But it sounds more extreme than just that from what you've said so far. Placement does matter of course, but work with what you got. Maybe when you have time you can do a sub crawl to figure out the old school way where the sub works best for the main listening position. (Or you could get fancy with mics and meters). Have you tried to test with the YPAO out of the picture? Just run it direct, no adjustments to levels, all speakers crossed at 80hz and listen to test/bass frequency tones. I'd start with the sub level in the AVR at 0, the subwoofer/bass gain in the AVR at 0, and the sub itself set to 50% gain. What DSP are you using? You probably know this - there are a few places in the Yamaha to adjust the sub/bass. What YPAO adjusts is here: On-Screen > Setup > Manual Setup > Level Then there is: Option > Subwoofer/Bass > Subwoofer trim +/- and Extra bass On/Off Also you have the classic Treble / Bass adjustment options: Option > Tone Control > Treble +/- and Bass +/- - with YPAO engaged this is usually set to "bypass" Finally, depending on what model AVR you have, you should have the option to create your own parametric EQ: On-Screen > Setup > Manual Setup > Parametric EQ - with that I imagine you can bump up certain frequencies if you feel like the PC-2000 is too flat. I leave my YPAO on "natural", but do adjust some levels after a calibration. I like bass, and I like it to be a little hotter than flat most of the time. I have a large-ish room to fill (14x22), that opens up into the rest of the house on 2 sides. I have a SB13ultra in the corner, which is not enough sub for the space. Regardless it rattles the house with music and movies, and produces much better bass response throughout the range it lives in than the RF-7II do when run on their own with a full signal. I run it a bit hot, but not max. I also have Yamaha AVRs and haven't had any signal issues with different models (760, 860 and 3070). Granted my sub should be pretty good since it's the ultra, but it's also sealed - where something like the PC-2000 outperforms it in some ways thanks to the port. In the garage I have a Yamaha 860, and an old outlaw lfm-1 sub. That sub at 50% is almost too much for the garage, which is about 600 sq/ft. (the PC-2000 is a much better sub than the outlaw lfm-1). In the office (10x15) I have a cute little SB-1000. At 50% that sub can be overwhelming in this small space, depending on the music. Helps that the office is not open space like the living room, provides a lot more room gain. We do have "normal" low ceilings, 8' high.

Instructions? I don't know what that word means Thank you Bob! I suppose next time I'll actually look the instructions you took your time and effort to write up.

Awesome, glad it is working out.

So just getting around to installing the titanium tweets I got from Mr. Bob Crites in my Forte II. The tweeter I pulled, has a circular foam/fiber filler/dampener behind it. I'm assuming I should put it behind the titanium replacement?

I can't speak to the comparison listed here. I've had my 64ii for a few months now, replacing a very good SVS Ultra center. (and RF-7II that replaced my SVS ultra towers) The 64ii is not dramatically better than the SVS ultra overall, however the realism of voice is where I'm taken aback at times. When my wife is watching a show or movie and I'm in another room of the house - I literally sometimes think she is talking to me, or talking to someone else in the room and have to listen again more carefully to realize it's the show she is watching. I have even gone so far as to respond to her from the other room asking if she said something to me. Never had that experience before with other center speakers.

I've never had anything fancy for SS amps, and never owned tube anything but TVs. Today I'm using Yamaha 3070 AVR for the 7.1.4. I think it sounds best with YPAO: Natural. Seems to work well for the RF-7II, but I've not heard them on another amp. (Oh that's not true, I had them on my Outlaw 5000 for a bit, but the amp has recently developed some noise issues, possibly a ground issue I need to figure out. It used to be silent.) Voices are very real sounding (movies/shows). I can be in the other room and can't tell, sometimes think it's my wife talking to our children (this is with a RC-64II also). Music sounds very good to me, either in multi or when I really want to sit down and listen I use 2.0. I think the Yamaha amp sounds slightly better than the Outlaw. I may bring out my NAD to hear the RF-7II on that so I can listen for differences. For my Forte II, I'm using my old NAD C372. I haven't heard the Forte II on anything else either, as they are "new to me". The Forte sound very good, take me by surprise at times just how good they can be. For the first time in a long time, I actually just want to sit in the sweet spot and close my eyes to listen. I either listen through a mid/entry level Fluance record player, or Tidal or FLAC files served from a PC through a Schiit Modi multibit DAC to the NAD. This also used to power my SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers in this room. The SVS and the Forte II sound very good to me with this equipment. The SVS I have heard also extensively on the Yamaha, which sounded good, but they sound better with the NAD setup. I might take the Fortes to the main room and listen to them vs the RF-7II from the Yamaha. In the past with many other speakers I've had Denon, Yamaha, Adcom, Carver. The Carver was delightful to my ears at the time, but was paired with relatively low end Polk Audio towers which sounded quite sweet and natural to me. (many years later, the Polks are still singing along, gifted to my Mom). A huge improvement over the Bose 601 towers I had before that (I was young and impressionable with what speakers the BX carried at the time - bought the Polk at a Circuit City and hastily sold the Bose when I heard the dramatic difference). The Carver was the CM-1090. I loved the little power gauges, silly as they may be. Wish I still had that thing. What pushed me into ditching the Bose, was exposure to very good systems thanks to a good buddy of mine who was a bit of an audiophile. He had a pair of B&W CDM somethings, large towers, incredible sounding compared to what I was used to. We would traverse the audio shops of Vegas and demo systems that blew me away. The Bose then sounded...well I have nothing good to say about them. An odd experience I had with a pair of KG3.something, they sounded terrible with my Denon, terrible with my Adcom pre and NAD 2155 (which was great with everything else). (in both cases terrible = lifeless, no dynamic anything, dull and boring) Then I paired the KGs with a cheap Yamaha AVR and they were dramatically different in all the good ways. A bit of harshness when really cranking along, but they rocked the garage surprisingly well. Never figured that one out, by all rights the TOTL Denon I had should have handled the Klipsch with aplomb, and the NAD 2155 (only 55wpc but with 40amps of current) made every other speaker sound so very good to my ears and drove them all tirelessly without breaking a sweat. Why did this low end Yamaha do so much better with the KGs? No idea. I just enjoyed the results. To this day that setup is in a friend's garage pissing off the neighbors on a regular basis.

@mlalla Any updates on the low output issue? Didja get your fancy new speakers yet?

Yeah true, different receivers use different way to display the volume level, I wasn't referring to your numbers per se, but the defaults of the Yamaha 0 should be pretty much deafening on the default Yamaha scale. With my previous speakers the wife and I got deep in the wine one recent evening and revisited the music of our youth at deafening volumes We were between -10 and +10 for a good while. It was more or less concert loud, we had to shout to hear each other. In the neighborhood of 110db, but then I don't have a nice SPL meter. The fun stopped when my Outlaw 5000 decided it needed to go into protection mode haha after a few hours of that. My ears rang for a few days.

That's a bit crazy. For all of my Yamahas (3070, 860 and 760) the starting volume is set to -40, and that's generally good for listening/watching in a quiet room at a low volume. For a bit more, depending on the source level, -30 is good for modest levels, and -20 it starts getting pretty darn loud (again depending on the source). When I want to rattle things I go higher. If you're setting it to near max (which is by default +16.5) there is definitely something wrong. Is it the same without YPAO involved? What is your source? Does it have it's own gain setting?

Ah I suffer old school with many remotes I'm sure it's worth it once you get the issues sorted out. Woohoo, I'd be excited. I thought about the RP-280. Seems like a great speaker. I'd probably start with the atmos modules in Front Height and Rear height and see how you like it. Side surrounds for the rear 280 if you can place them there. I'd probably experiment with surround backs vs side surround config. For a while I enjoyed surround backs only with a front height configured, it worked pretty well for my ears. But I don't have a good place to put side surrounds, so I had to like it haha. I'm using ceiling speakers for FH, SS, and RH now. Not ideal but I'm enjoying it. When you run YPAO, the height and angle measurement is not enabled by default (nor is multi-position measurement) so you'll need to enable those if you want. I also find it to be optimistic for my setup, it set my CDT-5800 ii to large. Thankfully after running and saving the config, it's easy enough to adjust to small and set the crossover to 80. Most of the time I have everything crossed at 80, the sub just does a better job. The distances and heights were fairly accurate for me, I did not adjust them.

Oh don't get me wrong, it sounds great. But I've never heard a (home) horizontal center speaker that didn't have a certain different sound to it, in different homes/apartments I've lived in, different equipment and speakers, neighbors and friends homes, demo in stores etc. Maybe it's psychosomatic at this point

You might be happy without a center, it's worth trying anyway. 2.0 or 4 can be pretty satisfying for movies. Except for using the same speaker (another Forte II in your case), I've never been 100% satisfied with the sound out of a center speaker. I'm not a highly critical listener, I just like to enjoy music and movies. The center always sounds like...a center to me. Even the RC-64II. Before that I had a SVS Ultra center (with my SVS Ultra towers etc). Similar, sounded great, but center sound is slightly different, maybe more boxy sounding. Hard to explain. That said I'm very happy with my RF-7II and RC-64II LCR.

I love my SVS Sb1000 (in a small space for 2.1 music). I really love my SVS SB13 Ultra. It's sealed, in a huge room (in the corner) and it still sounds really good for music and movies. For that room I would really need 2 or more large, ported subs to get the full on experience, but the SB13 is quite satisfying. Maybe will add 1 more. I like the sealed, I think it blends better with music, especially with the Klipsch RF-7II, which are quite fast and dynamic. But less bass energy to the room vs a good ported sub. What I really want are 2 PB16 Ultras in here, but they are huge, and they cost a lot. I might add second SB13 to match my existing one to help out the room a bit. The one SB13 is far better at all things bass than the 2 RF-7II, so most of the time I keep them crossed at 80Hz. Sometimes I'll run them full in 2.0 for music. SVS will sell you a new sub, or an outlet sub (to save a little)- then let you upgrade within a year (first you buy the new one, then get the RMA from SVS, and pay for shipping at that point). So it's a nice way to upgrade for less, because you get the full value of the sub you bought first, minus shipping cost.

I have not seen that. Seems a bit odd. This almost seems like it's coming from your TV or source.

NOW an interesting pair of Heresy show up locally :| Well, I can't complain about my sweeeeeet Forte II I just need to stay off CL and I won't have any problems.... haha https://austin.craigslist.org/ele/d/klipsch-heresy-vintage-hi-fi/6378892095.html

Cool, gotta use the tools that work best for you. I don't really have any quirks to worry about with my use of Tidal. The song that buffers maybe twice a week (lately) for me hasn't been a hindrance so far, I'll just skip to the next song I want to hear, and it resolves. My two receivers stream Tidal directly, and is controllable from phone/tablet app (Yamaha has excellent apps) Actually haven't had any buffers via Yamaha, oddly enough. My office streams tidal through a PC (which is where the sometimes buffers happen), to which I connect to via RDP. All works great for me (shrug). I'm neutral on the Tidal interface, and would like for it to be better at things (searching, playlists, etc), but have gotten used to it. I might have to give Spotify another whirl, it was similar in that it had pros/cons for me.

Here is my 3 right channel in-ceiling. They are 8 feet apart.

That's a better way to go than an in-ceiling speaker, should be much better sound!

Finally got around to installing the 4 in-ceiling speakers today. What a PITA! Also had to run new wire to my existing 2 in-ceiling to replace the cheap lamp-cord that was probably going to burn my house down Haven't properly tested everything out, I also got a new receiver today, the Yamaha Aventage 3070. I needed the upgrade to process 11 channels, and wanted the upgrade for the DACs and upgraded YPAO over my Yam 860. Ran YPAO with height / angle turned on, very cool, and was fairly accurate. I had to adjust LCR, surround back and the new CDT-5800-CII from "Large" to small x 80Hz. Seriously, the 5800's can definitely not play as large speakers.... LCR sounds better at 80Hz too, most of time. Anyway by the time I got done kids are in bed, and the wife too so I didn't blast any good movies to test out atmos. It's on the to-do list for tomorrow. Ah but first I need to re-incorporate my outlaw amp, as the rear heights need external amplification. I wanted to hear the 3070 on it's own and it sounds darn good in my limited time with it.

The 3070 should work nicely with your setup. I got mine today and set it up after spending all too much time in the attic installing 4 new in-ceiling speakers (front and rear height) and re-wiring the 2 in ceilings that had cheap lamp cord wires (replaced with proper in-wall/ceiling wire). Man that was tiring crawling around and moving insulation around etc. Anyway. I hooked up just the 3070, left my external amp out for now (so my rear heights won't be engaged for now). Nominal testing so far it sounds really good. Coming from a Yamaha 860, the YPAO has more options (height / angle measurements) which I'm glad for considering my in-ceilings (including my non-ideal in-ceiling side surrounds). though it did decide most of my speakers should be set to large. Yeah ok maybe the RF-7II...nonetheless it's easy enough to switch them to small and crossover at 80hz. It sounds better to me than my 860, and I wasn't expecting that at all. Not sure if it's the DACs or placebo or what. Maybe it's the improved YPAO. Maybe I'm crazy.... Regardless I'm very happy with the 3070. I'll route the front 3 back to my Outlaw 5000, and the rear heights so I can get the 11.1 I bought it for in the first place (and the pain and suffering of installing the height speakers!) - then I'll give it a proper test and blast some good Atmos movies.

Me too, I over paid for my Forte II. I don't care. I wanted them, I bought them, I love them. I have them in hand already! I ordered Bob Crites crossovers, and the Ti diaphragms. I installed the crossovers, and just enjoying them for now. I have no complaints. Will eventually install the Crites Tites.

Hah, yeah not a tire I would have chosen, but it came as OEM equipment. The F1 G:2 supercar is actually a very good track tire. It works best heated up and will provide in excess of 1 G lateral traction on this car. The Pilots are a downgrade in absolute grip in a road course environment, but an upgrade for the street (better traction when cold, better rain grip, and will last probably 2x as many miles). If I take this car to a track day it will be with a track only wheel/tire set. This latest iteration of the PSS is already known to have issues at the track unfortunately.