Your thoughts on this....

[PhilMays]

After much debate and sinking way more money into our horse barn and pasture fencing than even I anticipated, my theater is now going to be done on a shoe string. I'm goint to attemp a "warehouse theater" theme.

Having said that, please pick this apart and let me know your thoughts.

WALLS: Paint the cinder block a color (Tropical Nut) which is a comination of a brick color and a very deep burnt orange.

FLOORS: Paint the outside 1 to 2 foot a "brick" color and paint in the grout lines to give the elusion of brick. I'll then buy a remnant scrap carpet and have it bound for the majority of the floor.

CEILINGS: This was my biggest challenge. I HATE drop ceilings but there is certainly an application for them...However, not for me here. I have ceiling joists with the insulation between them and some very nice duct work running in between. I am now thinking about painting the joists black, installing a "track" of sorts, and sliding in bead board painted white or some color which will give the ceiling that warehouse finish, yet hide the fiberglass that bothers me. The last owbers were in heating and air conditioning and the gentleman was the chief metal worker at Duke Medical Center, so his duct work was custome and a real work of art to see.

SOUND TREATMENT: Curtains ever so often...?...I need help here.

SCREEN: Frame out on the wall some 2 x 4's and attach sheetrock, finishing it & trimming it, and painting it white. (What type of paint?)

Anyway, I'm extremely excited abou this new prospect and it looks like it may be a great theater.

ALL SUGGESTIONS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Oh Yea, the important part. I'm building this around a set of forte II's

[PhilMays]

Sorry anout the run on. For some reason, my posts don't space, even though I put the spacing in.

[TNRabbit]

DUDE.

Your priorities are WAY out of whack; take two Heresy's & call me in the morning...

[PhilMays]

Certainly not the first time I've been accused of that[]

[mark1101]

Phil...............what about the sound? Who cares what it looks like. [] Speakers.....amps.......Blue Ray ........processors........HDTV.......projectors........what about all that?

[Coytee]

Regarding ceiling... I don't know what you're looking for but could you simply take some fabric and cover it? (I'm thinking it might be less work than trying to hide everything)

You could always put some MWM's in there (like Mark's picture) and use simple horsepower to over come any other room objections!!!

[Groomlakearea51]

I like Coytee's suggestion.... Horsepower!!!! []

[jamesV]

For the curtains take a look at your local JC Penny or on-line. I purchased some 40x80 panels that are blackout thermal, they have a foam backing. The panels that I got are black to also help with the light coming in the windows.

James

[PhilMays]

All excellent suggestions.

.

.

I've not thought about fabric...hmmm....I kinda like the idea of "warehouse theater". However, I finished painting the walls tonight and I was looking at what I want to do, and damn it's alot of work. Anyhoo....

.

I think the speakers will be forte II's, Academy center, and either Herseys or Quartets. However, I may move the fortes to the surround position if I can get a nice set of Chorus II's or even Corwalls for the mains.

I'm considering several Processors including Sunfire TGP5, and the new Integra 9.9?, or even some other. I'll most likely use my Yamaha M-80 amps which push 260 WPC. I may go with two SVS subs. The projector will be in the 2K range and I'm out to lunch on that one.

The important thing is that I also want it to be able to play nice two channel music.

Anyway, it's coming along and I've not been this excited about a projuect in many, many years!

[falcon20x]

Sorry anout the run on. For some reason, my posts don't space, even though I put the spacing in.

You are on a mac computer, aren't you? Using Safari ?

[PhilMays]

No, windows XP.

[bhendrix]

Don't worry, Phil. We're here to help . . . .

Pics would really be helpful.

First, what are room dimensions?

What equipment do you have now?

What is the budget?

You can do some really cool stuff with a "warehouse theater theme" using pro speakers. Not only will it look cool, but will sound as good, if not better than the "home toys". Buy tools, not toys.

Pro speakers can be purchased for a fraction of the cost of beautiful "home" speakers and will really work well in the theater.

I just helped a friend do a basement theater for under $3000 for everything (some new stuff, some used stuff).

Three KP-3002 for L/C/R mains

KP-110's for side surrounds

RW-12 sub

Panasonic projector

Acoustically transparent 60 x 107" screen

Denon receiver and DVD

Both audio and video are outstanding!!

[artto]

FLOORS: Paint the outside 1 to 2 foot a "brick" color and paint in the grout lines to give the elusion of brick. I'll then buy a remnant scrap carpet and have it bound for the majority of the floor.

CEILINGS: This was my biggest challenge. I HATE drop ceilings but there is certainly an application for them...However, not for me here. I have ceiling joists with the insulation between them and some very nice duct work running in between. I am now thinking about painting the joists black, installing a "track" of sorts, and sliding in bead board painted white or some color which will give the ceiling that warehouse finish, yet hide the fiberglass that bothers me.

SOUND TREATMENT: Curtains ever so often...?...I need help here.

SCREEN: Frame out on the wall some 2 x 4's and attach sheetrock, finishing it & trimming it, and painting it white. (What type of paint?) Anyway, I'm extremely excited abou this new prospect and it looks like it may be a great theater. ALL SUGGESTIONS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. Oh Yea, the important part. I'm building this around a set of forte II's

FLOORS: I think you might be disappointed trying to make the floor look like something it isn’t, and if you’re going to cover much of it up anyway.........................

Also, consider wear. Painted or stained floor surfaces tend wear unevenly. Have you considered some of these new floor surfaces used for garages and commercial interiors? Some can actually look rather nice. Even a simple linoleum tile flooring can be put in rather cheap and look better and wear better.

CEILINGS: I agree ceiling tile should not be used. It has a rather narrow bandwidth for absorption. The main problem I see with your idea of running some kind of track along the joists is that the joists are probably not aligned evenly enough to accomplish what you want. Don’t forget, this part of the building process is “rough carpentry”. “16 inches on center” (or whatever) is simply a specification to make sure they get enough wood in there to carry the designed load. And the joists themselves are rarely “straight”. Also, is the insulation between the joists craft-paper covered or is it exposed? Most insulation materials will fall loose from the sound and vibration from above. It feels very itchy and uncomfortable.

SOUND TREATMENT: Unless curtains are specifically designed for acoustical applications they will do very little to alter the sound. With all the hard surfaces you’re going to have an acoustical nightmare unless you can break up the sound waves. Rule of thumb is you need surface sizes at least ¼ the wavelength of the frequency to be controlled in order to affect any significant change. The basic idea is to affect all frequencies (referred to as broadband) evenly in terms of absorption AND diffusion. Take a look at the Auralex website for Acoustics 101 or Ethan Winer’s website or my thread in this section of the Forum (artto’s klipschorn room ~ It’s down past the 30days mark so you’ll have to query it). Unfortunately (for you) good acoustics starts with the room itself. It’s size and proportions, isolation for sound transmission loss, etc.

SCREEN: It seems as though you’re putting the most effort into the screen. This should be the least of your problems.

Have Fun!!

[DrWho]

Unpainted cinderblock/brick has way better acoustical properties when left unpainted...

[PhilMays]

The room is 16 x 21. FLOORS: I was just going to paint the outside edges and have a carpet bound to lay in the middle. I found one I like for $450 after having it bound.

CEILING: The insulation between the joists already and held in place very well by "wire". I've actually thought about the "rough" aspect of placing something in between, so, I'm considering 1/4 round placed down the length. I would have to measure every foot or so and custom cut each piece. The challenge on a ceiling is that the lowest point to the bottom of the duct work is 7' 5" from the floor. I guess I could get back a few inches if I installed the ceiling around the duct. I looked at painting it black, but need to prime it first, then perhaps paint it a flat black.

SYSTEM: So far, my current system is for the upstairs "family room", so, all I have is an Academy, forte II's, and three 250 watt amps. I'll be looking for a decent processor and decent projector. A Panny would be fine. I would prefer a 1080P, but would take a 720P.

Thanks for the info folks...this is EXACTLY the type of input I need to consider.

[colterphoto1]

you will be regularly taking a bath in itchy fibrglass fibres.

If you need to leave the area open for access to wiring/plumbing until you get budget, consider stapling some black landscape fabric up there, it'll stop the itchies, give a more finished appearance, and be BLACK so it LOOKS like a theater! This is what Trey has in his basement and it looks super cool!

And yes to this

"The basic idea is to affect all frequencies (referred to
as broadband) evenly in terms of absorption AND diffusion. Take a look
at the Auralex website for Acoustics 101 or Ethan Winer’s website or my
thread in this section of the Forum (artto’s klipschorn room ~ It’s
down past the 30days mark so you’ll have to query it). Unfortunately
(for you) good acoustics starts with the room itself. It’s size and
proportions, isolation for sound transmission loss, etc."

Read it all, then read it again. BROAD band diffusion is the principle technique you want to employ. You just can't get enough stuff to make broad band diffusion without it looking a bit overbearing. Look at Artto's bendy panels, that's exactly what PWK used. And they're both pretty smart guys. No need to reinvent the wheel.

M

[gaspr]

BROAD band diffusion is the principle technique you want to employ.

Agreed....but Ethan Winer does not promote broadband diffusion... only absorbtion...maybe because he sells absorbers??

[DrWho]

BROAD band diffusion is the principle technique you want to employ.

Agreed....but Ethan Winer does not promote broadband diffusion... only absorbtion...maybe because he sells absorbers??

I
get the impression from his site that it is because he's not totally up
to date with the latest research...or maybe he just doesn't know how to
make diffusors?

RPG has quite a few really good articles on acoustic treatment...and lots of application specific products available:

http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm

Btw, curved panels (like the curved masonite) don't get rid of
specular reflections...they just lower the amplitude by creating a
single specular reflection in many directions. True diffusors actually
break up the specular reflections. I suppose it's a minor technical
difference, but true diffusion will actually increase the densitity of
the semi-reverberant field (for a lack of a better way to describe it).
The goal is to achieve the highest density possible without any
reflections above the decay envelope - and when possible, you want to
choose the shape of the decay envelope to be pleasing (which will
likely be different for different styles of music). It's also nice to
have no reflections within the Haas window.

Broadband
absorption also does not get rid of specular reflections - it just
lowers the amplitude, but even further thins out the semi-reverberant
field....eventually to the point that you're essentially anechoic
(which is a very unnatural feeling). In cases where you have no
alternative and it is desireable to reduce the magnitude of a specular
reflection, then you want to ensure that it is a broadband absorber,
but it should be used sparingly.

If you ever end up with a decay
envelope that is too long for your preference, then absorption is the
tool to shorten it. Again it should be broadband and used in strategic
ways that might also gain other benefit (like a longer Haas window, or
knocking out a single large amplitude reflection, etc...). Really, any
treatment should be broadband unless you're doing resonator bass traps,
but that's a totally different topic.

It should also be noted
that higher frequencies will naturally have a more dense
semi-reverberant field....usually to the point of being truly
reverberant. In order to maintain tonal balance, it is not uncommon for
high frequency absorption to be desireable - especially in lightly
furnished rooms. Room
size/dimenaions and speaker placement have a huge influence
too....usually pulling speakers out away from the corners is a good
thing, but not exactly condusive to the design of the Khorn - or any
Klipsch speaker really since they're all voiced for being in a corner.

I guess I'm not being very specific to this particular application, but hopefully it sheds some light on what some of the possible tradeoffs are. There is a lot more at play, but I'm not sure how technical we're wanting to get...especially when it usually ends up the case that budgets and aesthetics dictate the solution, even though it's probably not the best solution (nothing wrong with that, but that's where theory turns into compromise and it's a whole nother ballgame).

[PhilMays]

Thanks again guys. I'll read more on this from the sites posted. I've not thought of landscaping fabric....thats a very interesting concept!

Another thing I thought about is accoustic foam lengths that are cut and placed in between the joists thus covering the fiberglass.

Again, I need to read up on room treatments and sound waves, so to speak.

I would like to post pictures sometime this weekend, but the last few I've tried to download here, don't load.

[PhilMays]

Speaking of itchy fiberglass, we just bought this home and the heating system's don't evenly disperse. I took fiberglass and shoved some into the vents (no dampers on them up top) which helped a TON, but the heating and air guy commented that we'll have itchy fibers blowing into the room, Their sending two guys out tonight to adjust the dampers under the house for each room.