Commited to a separate 2 ch setup

[winchester21]

After considering and listening to many possible equpment mixtures and options I have come to the conclusion that I need 2 systems. I love the HT aspects of the high end reference speakers. IMHO- the very best out there without spending an absolute fortune. However, I just can't get the reference system to come up to my expectations playing music. This is only MY OPINION applicable to my room acoustics and musical taste- not to disrespect any reference system where the owner is satisfied. I dont have the room or cash at this point to go Heritage for everything so I have found a nice compromise.

I was all set to buy a set of RF 83s to replace my 2001 RF3s to complete my reference setup. There were issues of non returned calls which caused problems and pi$$ed me off with the dealer where I was going to buy so I blew the purchase off until later. I took the cash and bought a set of Cornwalls, A Mac C28 preamp, and a Mac 2105 power amp. For 2000.00- the price of a set of RF83s- I now have a 2 channel setup which blows the doors off many other new systems for several times the price.The cool thing about this old steup is that there are parts available and people to work on them for not a lot of money.

The Cornwalls did sound great as fronts with the RC64,RB61s,RB81s and I was able to tweak the setup and get everything to sound nice together.I just wanted to pair up the 2105 with a proper preamp even though the Pre outs on the Sony 4300 did just fine with the mac. I tried running my Carver 250 WPC amp through the Cornwalls as fronts and it just seemed too much for them to balance with the other speakers . I know that there are ways to switch stuff off and use the Cornwalls for both with a second preamp but I am not a technical wizard when it comes to switches and wiring so I decided not to go that route.

I will still complete my HT system with a pair of Rf83s or RF63s when cash allows. For now it sounds geat with the Rf3s.

Put me into the camp of the people who think that you cant do both HT and 2 ch music with one system.

This Mac C 28 soungs GREAT- Thanks to USNRET.

HT-Sony 4300ES- Sony 550 Blu ray- panasonic 50" plasma-B&K EX4420-Carver 3 ch A753-HK 870- rf3s-RC64-Rb61s-Rb81s-Definitive PF15 sub

2 CH-mac 2105-mac c28- Cornwalls.

[jdm56]

Congrats! Sounds like a good decision to end up with a killer HT rig and a wonderful, classic heritage two-channel stereo. What are you using for sources with the cornwall rig?

[fenderbender]

Great decision!!! that is almost Identical to a set-up I had a few years back....now we just have to get you into a nice Vinyl Front end [6][6][6]

[winchester21]

I was afraid someone would ask that question. Sad truth is that I am presently using my Sony 550 DVD player and an older Panasonic turntable with a shure cartridge. Not the best but not bad either..I have a thread in this section researching CD players. This is my next purchase. Then on to more vinyl and a better turntable. The better quality CDs sound Ok through the Blu ray but I realize that better source hardware is in order.I have dropped over 5k on audio toys since Oct and I am low on $$ so it may be a month or 2 before I can complete the project. Seems like good deals come up when you are least prepared to take advantage of them.

[jamesV]

Well congrats on the 2-channel setup.... [H]

Just like with the speakers, as long as it sounds great to you thats all that counts. I know what you mean about everything a good deal comes around the funds aren't there. I had to pass on a few things because of this... [:'(]

James

[edwinr]

I commend anyone who makes the step into a dedicated two channel system for music. Now the next step is to make the switch into two channel for movies as well. Really, after excluding the hype and expectations that the industry has (mis)led us into believing multichannel is the only way to go for maximum movie appreciation, a properly set up two channel system will knock your socks off when watching your favorite movie.

One thing to consider is that rather than spread our hard earned money out on two or more systems, we should consider spending all out dosh on just one REALLY good two channel system. It's a concept that took me a while to come to terms with - watching movies on plain vanilla two channel. Now I wouldn't have it any other way. I've been a pure two channel convert for nearly two years.

My current system features a Sony Playstation 3 hooked up to a high definition Panasonic projector via HDMI with a 92 inch pulldown screen. The audio is handled by a Audio Note Single Ended tube amplifier driving Belle klipsch speakers and twin REL subwoofers. A CEC Belt Drive player looks after my silver discs. Vinyl options are yet to be decided.

Food for thought...

[Cut-Throat]

One thing to consider is that rather than spread our hard earned money out on two or more systems, we should consider spending all out dosh on just one REALLY good two channel system. It's a concept that took me a while to come to terms with - watching movies on plain vanilla two channel. Now I wouildn't have it any other way. I've been a pure two channel convert for nearly two years.

Agree ! - Only use 2 Channel. Great sound, is Great Sound!

[Coytee]

One thing to consider is that rather than spread our hard earned money out on two or more systems, we should consider spending all out dosh on just one REALLY good two channel system. It's a concept that took me a while to come to terms with - watching movies on plain vanilla two channel. Now I wouildn't have it any other way. I've been a pure two channel convert for nearly two years.

I also agree. I've always been planning on a HT/2ch setup, using my Peach HT passthrough.

I continually sit back and wonder WHY??? Sure, it might be nice to hear a plane zip over my head but it's still pretty stupendous hearing what I'm hearing when in 2 channel.

[winchester21]

OK-Here is my point of view on the 2 systems. I am in a long narrow room, 24 x 13 or something like that. Man cave junkroom. Gun safes, computer stuff, cigar end table humidor, 3 large wine racks, office desk,cabinet full of car detail supplies, book case, circular fishing rod carousell, Kennedy tool chest, a couch, 2 chairs ect- ect ect.Floor space is limited. My cornwalls, r3s,TV, sub, components,audio rack on one wall- my Rb81s and my Rb61s are mounted high up on the wall firing down. Not your ideal studio, but it supports enough bad habits to keep me in financial ruin. So- you cram 7 perfectly balanced high end reference speakers into the available space and feed them a s---load of power. The RC 64 driven with 250 WPC of Carver power puts the rubber to the pavement big time. We watch mostly action- shootem up DVDs and everybody wants to come to Chris's house when a new one comes out. I have maybe 4 grand in the whole setup( e-bay and closeouts) not counting the TV. When I upgrade the fronts to RF63s or 83s I will be in it at about 5k including 7 channels of separate power amps. There is something to be said for helicopters landing in your living room and bullets flying when watching my type of DVDs. After I get the fronts upgraded, I will put this e-bay, close out, pieced together system up against anything under 10 large. Except for music.

Would a further up graded Heritage system with more speakers and more Mac amps be better- yes- without a doubt. But at what cost? Not saying that I will not go that route but this crummy economy has to improve and I will need a bigger room. Trust me, I am far from finished with my Heritage stuff. Tube amps and nice turntables are in the future as finances improve. At this point I have a nice 2 channel entry level system that I am reallly enjoying. It will get better as I get deeper into this addicting habit. The Heritage stuff is the undisputed top of the line in my book. But dont sell the reference stuff short. Different tools for a different application. Right about now, I am really enjoying having both.

[edwinr]

Winchester21, if you work out how much you've invested in your present multi channel system - great system that it is - you may find that you can buy into a Klipschorn 2 channel system for about the same. Properly setup, the Klipschorns will sound like a giant pair of headphones in your room. Even a pair of La Scalas will knock your socks off. I don't know how much a pair of La Scalas 2's will go for in the 'States, but you could buy a used pair of La Scala/Belles for very small dollars. In saying that, I see you have Cornwalls. I have never heard these speakers. But some forum members think they are the best thing since Marilyn Monroe... A few years ago, I had more speakers and HT stuff than you could poke a stick at - always upgrading, never happy. Now I don't have to constantly tweak or adjust processor settings. It's great, with much less stress and much more satisfaction for less outlay...

P.S. Movie soundtracks sound awesome with tubes.

[stormin]

My current system features a Sony Playstation 3 hooked up to a high definition Panasonic projector via HDMI with a 92 inch pulldown screen. The audio is handled by a Audio Note Single Ended tube amplifier driving Belle klipsch speakers and twin REL subwoofers.

Edwinr,

You must still be using a processor as a preamp which uses either the USB, Optical or HDMI outputs correct?

I wish they would of incorporated analog outs on the PS3.

[winchester21]

I heard a new set of k horns hooked up to a mac 275 in a large room. About 20 grand for the while setup new. The sound was nothing short of erotic. I had to just put it out of my mind due to space and money issues. My ultimate goal is to end up with some used stuff that comes close.

[Cut-Throat]

I heard a new set of k horns hooked up to a mac 275 in a large room. About 20 grand for the while setup new. The sound was nothing short of erotic. I had to just put it out of my mind due to space and money issues. My ultimate goal is to end up with some used stuff that comes close.

Forget the 20 Grand figure - Ridiculous!

Actually it doesn't cost this much. You can find a used pair of Khorns for around $2500 and buy a Great Tube amp, even a McIntosh for $2500 and you have 5 Grand into the system. (I've got less than that into my amps and Khorns) - I use 45 SET amps that cost me $1500 for the pair and my Khorns cost $2500 used. I would not trade it for anything on the market - regardless of price.

Yes, you have to spend a lot of money in this hobby, to learn that it doesn't cost a lot of money for great sound!

You could raise a lot of money putting your current stuff on E-bay and getting a good tube amp for the Cornwalls, then later a pair of Khorns.

[winchester21]

I realize that the k horns/ams can be had for cheaper. This system was brand new and money not a big deal to the owner. I have had an active ad for k horns in craigslist and the garage since Nov - WTB K horns- The thing is finding something close by to pick up cause I am not shipping heritage speakers. There have been only 2 in this area that I know of for sale- one pair was white and the guy wanted 2 grand- the others were recently purchased and the selling price was 3800.00. If something comes up at real a deal I will sell something and buy them. I understand your passion for the real stuff and I share it. I'm just not ready to 86 my reference system at this time. Maybe down the road- who knows. If a set of K horns pop up at the right deal I will be faced with a real dilema.Still like the reference stuff for a ton of sound in a space challenged room.

[Cut-Throat]

I have had an active ad for k horns in craigslist and the garage since Nov - WTB K horns- The thing is finding something close by to pick up cause I am not shipping heritage speakers. There have been only 2 in this area that I know of for sale- one pair was white and the guy wanted 2 grand- the others were recently purchased and the selling price was 3800.00. If something comes up at real a deal I will sell something and buy them.

About 5 years ago, I was 'On the Hunt' for a pair of Khorns. I was willing to drive about 1000 miles 1 way to pick them up. After about 6 months, I found a Pair in Milwaukee, which was about 350 miles from me. I borrowed a friends MiniVan and picked them up. I'll bet if you search the Internet - Audiogon and E-bay that a Pair will show up close to you within 6 months. You just have to be patient. - They will eventually show up!

Where are you located ? -- East or West coast is easy, easy - I was in the Midwest (Minneapolis area) - this was harder and took awhile.

[edwinr]

My current system features a Sony Playstation 3 hooked up to a high definition Panasonic projector via HDMI with a 92 inch pulldown screen. The audio is handled by a Audio Note Single Ended tube amplifier driving Belle klipsch speakers and twin REL subwoofers.

Edwinr,

You must still be using a processor as a preamp which uses either the USB, Optical or HDMI outputs correct?

I wish they would of incorporated analog outs on the PS3.

Hi stormin,

The HDMI cable connects my Playstation 3 directly to my projector, I've taken the 2 channel audio output from the Playstation via the analogue leads that came with the unit directly into my Audio Note amplifier. On the Playstation setup menu I have configured the audio output to 2 channel analogue. Even though it's not made clear in the instruction manual, the Playstation allows you to run both HDMI high definition video output in conjunction with 2 channel analogue audio output. It took a little bit of juggling with the menus to get it right, but now it works a treat.

[Coytee]

Would a further up graded Heritage system with more speakers and more Mac amps be better- yes- without a doubt

I might respectfully disagree that you need to look at Mac amps. I know some here will castrate me for that and you may indeed, have ears that would agree with them and not me.

I've not heard all the Mac's that are out there...I've only heard (owned) two different flavors (MC-30's and MC-2102). They both sounded fantastic, I can't and won't argue that. What I will suggest though is, I wondered if they sounded proportionately BETTER than other things I had, when you take their price premium into account. For my ears, the answer was no, their sound did not justify the additional premium in price, so I sold them.

If you happen to have a Mac amp and ever swing through Knoxville, you're MORE than welcome to bring it and we'll hook it up to a Jubilee on one side with some solid state on the other side and let you hear for yourself. This would allow a more educated opinion to you than simple words. (granted hearing in your own place would be best)

[fenderbender]

Would a further up graded Heritage system with more speakers and more Mac amps be better- yes- without a doubt

I might respectfully disagree that you need to look at Mac amps.  I know some here will castrate me for that and you may indeed, have ears that would agree with them and not me.

I've not heard all the Mac's that are out there...I've only heard (owned) two different flavors (MC-30's and MC-2102).  They both sounded fantastic, I can't and won't argue that.  What I will suggest though is, I wondered if they sounded proportionately BETTER than other things I had, when you take their price premium into account.  For my ears, the answer was no, their sound did not justify the additional premium in price, so I sold them.

If you happen to have a Mac amp and ever swing through Knoxville, you're MORE than welcome to bring it and we'll hook it up to a Jubilee on one side with some solid state on the other side and let you hear for yourself.  This would allow a more educated opinion to you than simple words.  (granted hearing in your own place would be best)

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Coytee on this one....as a former mac owner....275, 2505, and have experience with many others......true they are built like a tank but they have a sound "dark and wooly" IMO and my belief is that the amps/preamps should have no sound of their own...and simply get out of the way.

there are Tons of options SS and tube that sound amazing with heritage....

I have heard the new MC402 and it was very nice but at $7k I can think of many more options

[winchester21]

Depends on your point of view with the Mac. I will not even attempt to win the argument that there is maybe some better performing stuff out there. I am not spending 7k on any component. I buy used stuff as a rule. I have like 1300.00 in my amp and preamp. It does a fantastic job of driving the Cornwalls. Not tube quality but quite acceptable. A friend of mine has B&W speakers with a Rotel setup. He is literally sick based on how my stuff sounds vs his based on what he paid(new). If and when I decide to upgrade there are people standing in line to buy Mcintosh. I have no doubt that I could sell mine right now for more than I paid. As crummy as the ecomomy is -check out the e-bay listings. Every decent mac component has 10 or 20 bids and there are 3 pages of mac components available. Mac components are like Rolex watches, colt handguns, Winchester shotguns, or BMW automobiles-maybe not the very best in performance or initial purchase price- but certainly among the very best. But when it is time to move up or out to something else- no problem- there's always somebody else who wants them. Eventually, I will have a whole rack of them.

I still like the 275 better than anything that I have ever heard. But I reserve the right to be proved wrong.

[USNRET]

I have no doubt that I could sell mine right now for more than I paid. As crummy as the ecomomy is

Hey, get your hiney back down here, I want more money for the preamp! Glad it's all working out, that's the real ticket. Not brand, not money it's the, gag, synergy of all working together. TUNES, I want TUNES and it sounds like it's right there for ya brother. One more on the rocks. Make sure you make it back to Bob's so we can toss back one and chat as time was too short. Got the call tonight, my time in GA may be short.