fenderbender Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hey Winchester: I guess I shot my mouth off with out clarifying ......I'm known to do that... Let me just add that......it's all like beer and ice cream.......what tastes good to me, might taste like peepee to you, and I would never impose on someone else's ears what sounds good...there is no right or wrong, good or bad....only different.....so Viva la differance!!!! music is so subjective, and brings so much emotion with it, that there is no real way to quantify it....sure you can measure and test all you like....but the bottom line is "what sounds good to you" As far as quality goes...the whole SS vs tubes is another story all together....I like them both for different reasons, again different flavors......the important thing is the synergy of your whole system in your listening space...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 No offense taken- Macs have long had the reputation of being overpriced.I have thought the same thing until now. Back in the day I owned SAE, Phase Linear, HK and Sony Professinal series components. I bought ESS Heil speakers instead of Klipsch. Why? because i thought the Mac/Klipsch stuff was overpriced compared to the other stuff. Well- my SAE and ESS Heil stuff sold for nickels and dimes years later at the flea market. Had I bought mac and Klipsch stuff back in the 70s, I would still be using it and it would be worth more than I paid for it. lesson learned on my part. I have no intrention of ever selling this stuff except to another forum member for the same price that I paid i/when I decide to upgrade. Tossing a few back sounds like a great idea at Bob's place or any other location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 OK- I have gone of the deep end and lost my mind-commited to a pair of k horns and a Pair of Lascalas. I am thinking of building some kind of 7 channel system with 2 channel capabilities using thr K horns both ways and maybe my existing Cornwalls as surrounds with the Lascalas as rears. As much as I love them and have enjoyed them the reference stuff must go.i do not have the proper amps/prreamp for this system but i think I can get by and upgrade as I go. has anyone ever used this combination of equipment? I tend to think that this would work. if not, I can always sell what does not. I would like HDMI capabilities with the preamp HT section. I am on Direct TV Hi def.if I am still a rookie with all of this stuff so any input is appreciated. I still think that the reference HT stuff is really kick @ss for the price but this was too good and to closeby to turn down. i have always lusted after a set of k horns and this looks like the best chance to own them. Is anybody using an RC64 center with a reference system? Of all my components- I hate to part with this one. yeah , I am eating my words- a little salt and pepper please-but at least i did not say never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Should have warned you that this stuff is worse than Crack!!!! Carful or you'll wind up like Colter what are you planing for a center? you should stick with heritage for the timber match......I think if you post in HT section the HT guru's will help out.... as I only really only do 2 channel. and have a seperate room for HT with a pioneer 7.1 (good enough for me) and really nice Jamos...and since I almost never watch the darn thing why spend more $$$ anyway....you will have no choice but to love the Khorns....congrats I think lots of folks here like Emotive audio ht gear, reasonably priced and great sounding with klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Should have warned you that this stuff is worse than Crack!!!! Yah... That "crack" is the sound of the frying pan upside the head when you tell She Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO) who just got home from work that her entire living room had to be re-arranged to accomodate your latest "acquisitions".... [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Would a further up graded Heritage system with more speakers and more Mac amps be better- yes- without a doubt I might respectfully disagree that you need to look at Mac amps. I know some here will castrate me for that and you may indeed, have ears that would agree with them and not me. I've not heard all the Mac's that are out there...I've only heard (owned) two different flavors (MC-30's and MC-2102). They both sounded fantastic, I can't and won't argue that. What I will suggest though is, I wondered if they sounded proportionately BETTER than other things I had, when you take their price premium into account. For my ears, the answer was no, their sound did not justify the additional premium in price, so I sold them. If you happen to have a Mac amp and ever swing through Knoxville, you're MORE than welcome to bring it and we'll hook it up to a Jubilee on one side with some solid state on the other side and let you hear for yourself. This would allow a more educated opinion to you than simple words. (granted hearing in your own place would be best) I pay for a name on occassion but most likely would not for MAC. One of thier old tuners would be pretty though. Best MAC power amp I ever heard was a NOS Valves full rebuild, do not remember the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Should have warned you that this stuff is worse than Crack!!!! Yah... That "crack" is the sound of the frying pan upside the head when you tell She Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO) who just got home from work that her entire living room had to be re-arranged to accomodate your latest "acquisitions".... LOLOL.....thwack!! Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I took a different approach. I discovered fairly early here that I am a Heritage enthusiast above all other Klipsch approaches. A person would think based on that preference that one two channel system would pretty much fill my needs/wants/desires in regards to audio. That person would be wrong[]..... .....because I also discovered just how different various gears sound when hooked up to the same speakers, and the importance of "matching" those gears to the speakers sonically for the best results. What is best in one case isn't always best in another. My first real "system" was the vintage approach: Belle Klipsch, Mac MX-110, MC-30 amplifiers with a tube buffered CD as source. I went through two years of trials on the MC-30s alone, sampling different parts packages in order to find the best sound available in a stock schematic rebuild of the amplifier. I arrived at two preferred builds for two different "takes" on these amps, one more "relaxed and vintage" sounding, the other more like SET.....BOTH possessing that wonderful tube rectified midrange carriage, naturalness, and saturation that is available from very few. They DO NOT sound "wooly" - again, parts really matter on these multiple stage amps - taking the time to find them made my investment in my Macs very fruitful. But I could not live on vintage Mac alone. I wouldn't trade them EVAH - but there are things I'm looking for in a more modern presentation that takes advantage of 50 years of progress. Sounds like the perfect place to do an HT/2 channel combo[] So in another room, I have the voice of the system - 6 indentically drivered alnico Cornwalls (timbre matching solved) and 2 JBL 4638 cabinets (each with 2 15" professional woofers) in a 15 X 20 ft room. The heart of the system is an older Krell HT preamp (which is PHENOMENAL for HT impact and sound, even for a supposedly "out of date" unit), with DVD, CD, FM tuner and cable box as sources. I have used several solid state amps in various combos.....including Mac and Outlaw. But on the main channels, with an eye for 2 channel performance - a pair of KT88 based NOSValves VRDs (absolutely INCREDIBLE amps by any standard), and coming soon, a tube based preamp with HT passthrough, for optimum yumminess in 2 channel performance. Why all this? Because no matter how you slice it or build it, no two pieces of gear sound alike. Yeah, I know, an amp or preamp is SUPPOSED to be "straight wire" in sonics, but no two of anything are alike. So I took the KNOWN STRENGTHS of the various gears to create systems that would cover all "bases" or desired traits. If I'm listening to 1960's and 1970's era rock and jazz, the Mac system handles this VERY well (and hey - many of those recordings were mastered on vintage Mac amps and JBL horns, so this really does make sense). But for music, there are benefits of the more modern system too - best bandwidth and top to bottom performance with optimal clarity......the modern audiophile system. I have a system for just about every preference now, including multichannel. BUT - If I were limited on space or resources, I would put those resources into ONE BEST POSSIBLE system. 2 channels only, if that's all one can afford to do WELL. You would be amazed at what 2 KILLER channels can do.....many here have elected to do just 2 channels, and if done well, can be as fruitful and enjoyable as 6. The approach should be to do whatever it is you plan to do WELL. Whatever one chooses to do, I recommend an eye towards doing it ONCE. RESIST the urge to build two complete systems then going through upgrades on every aspect of those systems (particularly on speakers and amps, which don't change much over time). It is worth the effort to take time to consider your long term goals, then assemble the pieces to make that goal happen. If you build two systems then set out to upgrade all aspects of those two systems, how much selling, shipping, swapping, and lost $$$ will you incur? It took eight years to get to where I am with my systems now....too much time to go back and do it again - and had I "aimed low" on my system expectations might well be replacing some stuff. But since I got what I wanted the FIRST TIME, most of these gears will be here for the remainder of my lifetime. While it might seem "smart" to "save money" by buying lesser gears sooner, it's not really as smart if your sale and replacement ends up costing you more than the one purchase of the better gear would have. Make your purchases really count.....and think LONG TERM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 OH, and if you are a fan of the Mac 275, you GOTTA hear Craig Ostby's NOSValves VRDs. You just GOTTA[] Made me forget about the MC275....and I'm a Mac fan already so that took some doin'[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yeah- this one is gonna be real dicey. Foutunately the speakers will be in the man cave- not the living room. I was trying to think of when to tell her and how to sneak the speakers in without being caught. (Ever tried to hide 4 battleships?).Maybe bribe one of her girlfriends to take her out shopping while we unload the contraband. To make matters worse I am moving these in on 2-15-09- valentines day weekend.For now I am in the process of hiding all frying pans, firearms, and sharp objects such as kitchen knives. I will also just magically come up with a piece of jewelry the week before. If I get whacked, stabbed, or shot- Im gonna come back and haunt you guys. Initally I will use an RC 64 for a center. I set up my reference system at one time with Cornwalls as a center and it worked great. That is what started me down this road of disaster in the first place. The Klipsch tech support people claim that this is reccomended if space is an issue with a Heritage center. As for space- this room is so far over the cliff that it does not matter. Initally I will use the k horns for fronts- RC64 center- Cornwalls for surrounds-Lascallas for the rears. Realisticly i will make a choice of one of the heritage models for a center and start looking for a single. I have a mixture of Mac-Carver-B&K- and HK amps for now. Eventually I want to end up with tubes running everything after I hit the lottery. Definitely a work in process but getting the speakers is the hard part but hopefully I am just about there. Worse than crack???? Ya Think?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Chris, since there is limited 7.1 media available what would you think of the KH/LS/KH front, Cornwall surrounds and the other LS as the 6th channel rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Audible N -You make a very convincing argument. I have been limited to used equipment so far. I will have about 5k or less in speakers that would have cost a kings ransom new.My plan was to pick off 3 used 275s and one undetermined mono amp to run the stuff. Based on the rave reviews I will check out the NOSValves VRD thing depending on $$$ and availabliity.I have bought -sold -and traded components without loss of cash so far. That is a major attraction to used Klipsch and Mac. I realize that with the $$$ invested that I am getting into a whoe new ball game and that money must be spent to achieve the desired result- maybe outside of the brands that I have liked.My 2 liiting factors are first- space/room ans second- $$$$$$. I can spend another 5 or 6k on electronics over a period of time but not much more and live to tell about it.Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Since the lascalas are black they need to go in the rear of the room- I have a space for them Need walunt or birch for the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Since the lascalas are black they need to go in the rear of the room- I have a space for them Need walunt or birch for the front. Respectfully disagree; you need a matching voice up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yes agree-I plan to put the 2 black ones in the rear of the room and find another single Lascala for a center- or maybe another K horn depending on what pops up- My RC64 for now. Funny thing- I heard somewhere that klipsch developed the cornwall as a center channel speaker(long before HT) for the k horns. After my reading/research I would definitely agree with your comment on horn matching. Just cant use the black one with handles for this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just cant use the black one with handles for this application. Glad I'm not the only one afraid of the wife!!! [][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Oh yea he's addicted, no going back now just give in and let it happen ! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I have my 2 channel and HT systems basically combined. I can switch back and forth. And, I love them both, for different reasons, at different times, depending on what I am wanting to do. And, it does let me use the same 2 fronts, Jubs. And, I too love my Mac gear. I started this hobby after my uncle, a long term Klipsch and mac fan, got me into it at a young age. His gear is 20-30 years old, and still sounds great. And, like others have said: I bought it gently used, could sell it for close to what I bought it for in the future. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am NOT afraid of my wife!!!- it's the lawyer that scares the c--- out of me. I can see me living in a cardboard box playing my k horns hooked to a battery powered jam box eating out of garbage cans. Go ahead- kick the poor wino who is crawling across the pavement to his bottle with the last sip of gin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Gin! you can't listen to K-horns while drinking gin!!! Scotch, whiskey, cognac, beer.....but no gin... I think if I upgrade my turntable one more time I may be looking for one of those boxes also [][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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