russ69 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Not even close. I have a significant loss in one ear but I can still tell a good system from a crappy one. I have a total loss of top end in my right ear, I'm pretty sure I only need one good working tweeter! Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 The first step in speaker selection should be a simple hearing test.[] Don't spend a bunch of time and money reaching tones your deaf to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The first step in speaker selection should be a simple hearing test. Don't spend a bunch of time and money reaching tones your deaf to Sorry but this one chaps my hide. The way I see it, is that you don't need golden ears to tell your hi-fi rig from sounds in the real world. My main system is, if I don't say so myself, a fine music reproducer however it is a long way from sitting in front of a live band. All systems fall short. So even with a serious hearing loss I can still tell the difference between sh_t and Shine-ola. Maybe you older audio pros can step in here and explain how old guys with bad hearing can still set-up a good system or mix a good record. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 How loud the high test tones (or the high frequencies in music) are counts. Fletcher/Munson alone would predict this, even for those with young ears. I don't believe that hearing tests are conducted at very high SPLs. They are concerned with thresholds. Cymbal crashes probably have lots of high frequency shimmer to almost everyone, if they are loud enough. If a 110 dB cymbal crash has the highest overtones at, say, 90 dB, that is still pretty loud compared to a hearing test, I believe. I think people should get the best speakers they can, regardless of their hearing. An informal test would be whether you can hear a difference in the high frequency content IN MUSIC between a built in TV speaker (or a cheap computer speaker), and a speaker with a good tweeter. Another would be to compare, while trying to ignore the difference in distortion, reasonably loud passages in some DVDs of new films to DVDs of old films (before about 1945) with optical soundtracks and optical original music elements. Do the new films seem to have more high frequency content, and more auditory sparkle? If so, you may benefit from speakers with good high frequency response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 In answer to the thread title: No But I can tell you with certainty when it isn't there. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99PanozAIV Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 One of the tests I did evaluated relative sound sensitivities. About 9,000 hz on up, I was over -30 db. With that kind of fall off, playing the music loudly won't help because it will just be masked by the volume of the audible tones. FWIW, I can still easily tell differences in sound quality between all of my sources and still prefer some of the others for certain music so there is still richness of variety in what's left. It just bothers me that I'm missing so much. Also, one of the tests evaluated timber differences between your ears. I was surprised that the same tone could sound so different from one ear to the other. Anyway, interesting stuff. For you young ones out there, protect your hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 With that kind of fall off, playing the music loudly won't help because it will just be masked by the volume of the audible tones. . I agree that, under the circumstances you describe, increasing the loudness, in the sense of "turning it up" probably won't help, due to masking. What I meant was a bit different, I think. Suppose the maximum loudness used in a hearing test is 80 dB (just a guess). The older ear's sensitivity to the very high frequencies at that level -- if it reacts at all -- will be lower than if one is listening to a forte piece of music with an average level of 80 dB, but with fff cymbal crashes or brass instrument super peaks (like those at the end of The Great Gate of Kiev, when our orchestra fairly peeled the paint off of the walls) of 110 or 115 dB, with the higher overtones at 90 or 95 dB (the latter about 1 watt into Klipschorns in my room). I can no longer hear 16K reliably with the test tone at 70 dB, but if I sneak the volume up to 80 dB, get up close and on axis, I can (caution some tweeters will blow out at 2 watts continuous). 12K is much clearer at 80 dB. 80 dB is the loudest I am willing to go with a continuous or warbling test tone, measured at about 2 feet away, for the sake of my Klipschorns. It's interesting that some people can detect very high frequencies without actually hearing them. Perhaps other parts of the hearing mechanism (other than the hair cells in the cochlea) become conditioned in one's younger years (by pairing of some kind of stimulation of them with cochlear stimulation whenever high frequencies are present), to detect the presence of high frequencies without truly hearing them in the cochlear sense. Others have wondered if there is a skin reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 My question was related more to high freq. generation in speakers. I just don't think 18K sounds are getting noticed if you can only hear 12K for instance. How can they be? For us that cannot hear high frequencies, I suspect clarity and quality in your sound still important. I'm not suggesting we all bail out on quality audio and buy jam boxes. As for me, I've been listening to active 2ways with JBL 2441s on the top half and I haven't missed a thing with this setup vs speakers that reach 20K+ in my collection around here. I probably haven't heard that stuff in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 It's interesting that some people can detect very high frequencies without actually hearing them. I can do that with a mic and oscilloscope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 11, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2009 Can you even hear anything above 16 Khz? No, not even close. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Other than possible harmonics, anything above about 12-14 gets real "iffy". I'm almost 60 years old now, and interestingly, if I work in the office for 2-3 days, very low volume NPR station playing, etc. and when I get home, avoid any "man cave" activity for a couple days, I can hear up in the 12+ area quite well, for about an hour..... I rarely turn anything up "loud" anymore. Then again with K'horns, Belles, Cornwalls, etc. you really don't need to. Except on those special ocassions when my rowdy friends show up for a few brews.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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