Cornwalled Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hello all, What is the K-402 horn used in? Is that the one from the Jubilee? Also, what driver is used with it? I tried to find info on it, but couldn't find much. Thanks, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Yes. It is a big rascal tractrix horn often seen atop a Jubilee bass bin. Klipsch often sells it with a K-69 driver, but some users substitute others. It is pretty cool in that it allows use of a driver which covers the mids through HF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It is pretty cool in that it allows use of a driver which covers the mids through HF. With substantial EQ. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Greg ..You took the words out of my mouth,,,The K402/69 is a Cinema long throw horn/driver,,,Conical horn with a tracktrix shaped mouth (I question that mouth shape) Affectionally called the Wart Hog. Yes it needs substantual EQ,,, But every driver needs some EQ.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 The Klipsch K69 is the same driver as the P.Audio BMD750. Currently, the P.Audio price is up over $200 a pop (for one) Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Greg ..You took the words out of my mouth,,,The K402/69 is a Cinema long throw horn/driver,,,Conical horn with a tracktrix shaped mouth (I question that mouth shape) Affectionally called the Wart Hog. Yes it needs substantual EQ,,, But every driver needs some EQ.. The K402/K69A combination was devised for HOME use of the Jubilee system, it does not appear anywhere in Klipsch's Cinema catalog. Usually the K69A is coupled to the K510 or HF-T horn with the K402 being driven by a much larger K1133 midrange driver for long throw application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 The issue of equalization is an interesting one. Unfortunately, some are providing a negative connotation. That is unnecessary. The K-402 is a modified tractrix expansion. One consequence of the modification is that is now also a CD horn. In a nutshell this means that the frequency response off axis is similar to its response on-axis. The physics of the situation dictates that it can not be inherently both flat and also CD at the same time (for higher frequencies). Consequently the K-402 requires an high end boost. This is not a sin and it is not unusual. The CD horns from EV, Altec and JBL also require a high end boost. So the connotation that this is some sort of design flaw that requires a high end boost is not warranted. The more interesting question is what are the advantages of a CD horn. That is probably worth a separate thread that could be started another time. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I have a pair of K402s and use them with TAD 4002 drivers. You do not need a high end boost with TADs. In fact, I have it turned down some up top. When I was using K69 drivers, I did need to boost the high end several Db. I guess it depends on the driver. I have done many RTA measurements and the horn has a mid range hump that needs to be compensated for.......reduced from 600hz to around 5K. There is no point in the FR of the K402 where it needs boosting with TADs though. The fact that horn needs some EQ has somehow given it a bad rap of sorts with some folks. I have no issues. I don't think I could part with my 402s. The guys who criticize them ought to put a decent driver on one and give another listen. The K69 leaves a lot to be desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 With substantial EQ. As Mark already alluded to, the TAD 4002 requires far less eq'ing than the K69 which suggests to me regarding the K402, the eq requirement is more of a driver deficiency than a horn deficiency (though I don't know that) Ya know Maron...there are people with Warthogs mounted on their wall.... ours just happen to be mounted on a speaker instead [] [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Fact is the K402 isn't a long throw horn/driver as Maron loves to mislead people to believe. The Polars Plots prove and for that matter anyone who has spent any listening time with them properly setup can tell you this. Fact is all drivers/horns have EQing either in the form of electrical (active and/or passive) and/or Acoustical EQing. For those who would like to know why a flat on-axis and flat power response is an important goal refer to research of Floyd E. Toole among others. I really recommend the book by Toole "Sound Reproduction loudspeakers and rooms" because it gives a much needed fundamental understanding of psychoacoustics and what we need from our loudspeakers and rooms to advance and acheive good sound reproduction. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Actively equalizing a speaker system can be both good and bad depending on what your goals are and how tolerant you are of the extra electronics involved in the process. Nobody can say that EQ is only good or only bad, it's a subjective evaluation. I have my reasons why I don't like the extra electronics involved in manipulating the signal for my own system in my living room. If I were designing a speaker for a movie theater, I would have a different set of goals than I would for my speakers in my living room. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Mike TN,,, I beg to differ with you,, The 402 is a long through cinema horn,, The polor plots do show this,, You just dont know how to read them properly. Have you ever wonderd why you need diffusers in the rear sides of your room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 When JBL uses the terms: short-, medium-, and long-throw then the K-402 (with its 90 deg x 40 deg dispersion) would certainly not make it a "long throw" horn. Also, the issue about the need for diffusors is a red herring. The thing that confuses me is that I am confident that you already knew that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Mike TN,,, I beg to differ with you,, The 402 is a long through cinema horn,, The polor plots do show this,, You just dont know how to read them properly. Have you ever wonderd why you need diffusers in the rear sides of your room? Maron you either haven't seen the polars or your the one that doesn't know how to read them! You also know better than to claim the K402 to be a long through horn and Roy the designer of the K402 told you you were wrong but facts never really seem to stop you do they? For someone who claims to know so much about the K402 you didn't seem to know the difference between the K403 and K402 not to long ago? If you knew anything about acoustics you would know that those diffusers would be there regardless of what speakers I'm using. You have an agenda against Roy and the Jubs and you like to troll about and jump in and post [bs] to these threads. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 When JBL uses the terms: short-, medium-, and long-throw then the K-402 (with its 90 deg x 40 deg dispersion) would certainly not make it a "long throw" horn. Also, the issue about the need for diffusors is a red herring. The thing that confuses me is that I am confident that you already knew that.... Hey Tom actually the K402 is closer to a (90 deg H x 60 deg V) mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Mike, I just realized my error on vertical. However, this only strengthens my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Mike TN,,, YES I have read the polor plots,, And can read them better than you. thats obvious. I have heard the 402... And i own a pair of 403s,,...Yes it amuses me why you need those diffusers so close to your ears.. I have no agenda with the Jubilee horn,,, I think its terrific,, There are better horn to place above the bass bin.. But that should not be your concern,, As far as Roy,,, I dont know him that well..to have an agenda. Where did you get that idea? But you do have a chip on your noggin for some reason.. I dont know you either,, But you can be insulting,,I suppose its your nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 OK... What horns would be better for the Jubilee ??? What is the 403 ? How about using the TAD 4002 with the 402 ? Anyone using the 402 with TAD 4002's and have a passive network ? One more... anyone know where I can get a pair of TAD 4002's ?? Every now and then I see them on eBay but I wonder about buying them from there... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 What is the 403 ? As best I know, it's the 'pretty" horn as shown in the picture of PWK and the Jubilee. If I understand the history correctly (and I might not) it is also the same horn they had issues with, regarding quality control. Furthermore, it is also the horn that evidently PWK was referring to when he told Roy he wanted yet an even LARGER horn on top of the Jubilee bass bin. Last, it is also the horn (as I understand it and again, might be wrong) that PWK's widow had copied in resin when she had a couple Jubilees constructed as she felt PWK wanted them to be (or so I'm presuming). How about using the TAD 4002 with the 402 ? Absolutely kicks hiney! [Y] Anyone using the 402 with TAD 4002's and have a passive network ? Rigma. His passives (parts alone) cost him right about $3,000 [] Mike (TN) uses active with his and Mark (who is using the K402 with a MWM bass bin) might be using an active...then again, he might be using a passive...I'm unsure. Those are the only three that I know of that are currently using the TAD 4002 as well as the K402 (if I'm forgetting anyone, pardon me!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 And i own a pair of 403s I'm curious and am only trying to clarify facts... Do you own a K403 horn, as provided by Klipsch & Associates or, do you own a "K403" as in, a horn reverse engineered from the wooden K403 and was never put into production for Klipsch & Associates? I was always under the impression that one (or maybe two?) prototypes of the K403 existed so I'm presuming you do not have one of those wooden ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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