turntable3 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Recently I had a hearing session with the Palladium P-37F in my livingroom. I had to make a decision: changing the scalas for the P-37Fs or not. These are made like very fine furniture. The cebra-grain-veneer is very, very nice. If positioned properly – far away from any wall and on spikes – these speakers sound like an acoustical magnifying glass. Powered by a ML 431 with ML320s and my newly purchased ML390s-cd-player these speakers sounded best with music like Natalie Cole’s Unforgettable or War of the worlds or similar music. But when it came to music like Black Sabbath and Ozric Tentacles the sound was awful not only for my ears because of bloating and unprecise bass and sawing highs. The scalas sound good with Natalie Cole too – but they are no magnifying glasses compared to the P-37F. The scalas sound more open and airy but have lesser bass. For my ears the scalas sound far more real than the P-37Fs which sound artificially. My dealer said when I rung him up to get back the P-37F, he would have been very disappointed if I had changed my scalas for the P-37F. There is one point which I do not like: the P-37Fs are built in China. Why Klipsch does not build them in the US? For Chinese built speakers the price here in Germany is too high: 8000€. For the presentation model P-37F which I auditioned the price was 4200€. Kind regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Hard to beat Paul W. Klipsch's original Heritage speaker line up. I understand the company branching out and trying to appeal to all genre's of audionuts from the beginner to the snobby. Each line up has it's place but I am strictly a Heritage nut and will always be since I heard my first pair of Heresy's in the '70's. Hand made in Hope, Arkansas baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Had to look up ML 431, we see those initials here so infrequently. Looks like quite a powerful amplifier, capable of driving 400-watts into 4-ohms. I should think that it is enough, even with the P-37F’s impedance dips. If there was a flat or small loudspeaker that could do what big ole horns do, yet with a super-powerful amplifier, I would probably switch. With tubes on the mid and high end, like the LaScala, with solid state for the energy hungry bass, and you have a wonderful combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Why Klipsch does not build them in the US? I was under the impression that they were made in the US. You ever get to Cologne? (Koln?) I've seen different spellings of it. If you'd like to hear a bigger horn loaded speaker than the LaScala, lemme know and we'll get you in touch with Heinz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace168516 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I too was under the impression the the Palladiums were US made...something about those spectacular cabs coming from overseas does not feel right...I think I read they were US made somewhere too, but I could be wrong. I am sure Amy would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'm sure Amy will chime in (or does she simply make an entrance??) I thought I was told there was a domestic company who did most of the woodwork and the speakers were completed at the factory in Hope. They might not actually cut/bend the wood at the factory but they finish the production and match all the drivers prior to populating the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 You ever get to Cologne? (Koln?) I've seen different spellings of it. If you'd like to hear a bigger horn loaded speaker than the LaScala, lemme know and we'll get you in touch with Heinz. If you like the type of sound you get with your La Scalas, but would like to upgrade, I'd suggest listening to a pair of La Scala IIs. They seem to get positive reviews from everyone who has heard them, including original La Scala owners.However, if you want to go "all the way" in that direction, I'd second Coytee's suggestion. Jubilees are the real thing! And they're a great speaker for a reasonable price, so they're a really good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turntable3 Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Good Morning, on the package of the Palladiums is written very clearly: Made in China. @Coytee: thanks for your suggestion. Yeah the Jubliees - they are too big for my room @Islander: I am going to get an audition of LS II @Colin: you should hear what the Mark Levinson 431 is pumping out of the scalas at high volumes - for me the perfect match and sound - ok. a liitle bit more bass would be fine - but it depends on the record how much bass is in it - with David Gilmour's Live in Gdansk (on vinyl) I do not hear any lack of bass - the scalas shake the walls and the neigbours.... Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I know for certain that the Palladium P-39 (flagship) is built in Hope. The P-37 is the little guy. Can't say for sure about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I had only a brief occasion to audition Klipsch poster Mike Lindsay’s pair of stock LaScalas. Compared to my Cornwall 1s (B2 crossovers), the LaScala’s larger mid-range horn was smoother, larger, clearer, open, efficient, compelling, accurate and true. Though I loved the Corns for over a decade, I suddenly had to have something better. Yet, when I got my classic Klipsch corner Khorns, I was shocked at the lean bass (and dreamy qualities of the mid-range). The Khorns reach down to 30Hz, within about 2dB. It took some live jazz and classical music listening to realize how much more accurate the lean Khorn bass was compared to the boomy mid-bass of the Cornwalls. In my opinion, if you do NOT have solid-state subwoofer support for any speaker that goes down to only 50Hz, you are missing out on a lot of content, tone and definition. The mid-bass punch of the Cornwalls makes this less apparent than the smoother LaScalas, but both of them need powerful subwoofer support in the nether regions. The problem however, is that big ole horns like the LaScalas have very high output (because they are so efficient it is easy to drive them LOUDLY). This means that not just any sub-woofer will match seamlessly with them. You need a very powerful one, which means larger and more expensive than the puny models typically schlepped at retail stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 @Colin: you should hear what the Mark Levinson 431 is pumping out of the scalas at high volumes - for me the perfect match and sound - ok. a liitle bit more bass would be fine - but it depends on the record how much bass is in it - with David Gilmour's Live in Gdansk (on vinyl) I do not hear any lack of bass - the scalas shake the walls and the neigbours.... Jack Not to hijack the thread, but finally someone who has actually heard a high quality SS amp can report back. The posts about how a $50 chip amp or tube amp can outdo any SS amp are just plain wrong. Now back to your regularly scheduled program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 you are right, tigerwoods, I have heard a Pass X250 on my Corns, a $50 chip amp will not out do a $5K s-s amp, but it can come amazing close, especially when they are not clipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but finally someone who has actually heard a high quality SS amp can report back. The posts about how a $50 chip amp or tube amp can outdo any SS amp are just plain wrong. I've got a pair of high quality SS amps in the form of my Yamaha MX-D1s, unless you consider Class D to be yet another category. I've driven the La Scalas with the first one I got, drove the Heresy IIs temporarily with the second one, and now I'm using both amps to drive the JubScalas. In each case, the D1s produced outstanding sound, with clarity all the way to the back of the stage. It would be really extravagant and out of reach at the moment, but I'd ideally have another pair of them to drive the four Heresies. That's how impressed I am with the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 No! Mine is bigger. No. Mine is bigger... Yikes, Islander, yours is bigger: The result of all of this innovation is the claimed 500Wpc RMS output from a relatively small, lightweight, cool-running amp that consumes little power and has a very low claimed total harmonic distortion (0.003% or less at 1kHz), 120dB dynamic range, and exceptionally wide bandwidth: 1Hz–100kHz, ±3dB. http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/405yamaha/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 That's not just advertising, either. Two magazines tested them and found the power into 8 ohms to be 505Wpc and 530Wpc, with slightly different measurement standards. What's particularly relevant for home use is that the measured distortion is lowest in the 6-10 watt range, where they would spend most of their time, with hundreds of watts of headroom to give realistic dynamics during musical transients. Even at moderate listening levels, you can feel drumbeats and trumpet blasts hitting your chest, just like real drums or trumpets. The D1s are known for slightly soft imaging, but combined with the excellent imaging of the Scalas, a realistic soundstage is created. It's an unexpected synergy, but I'm very happy with it. The combo is also very revealing of micro-details, down to a singer's faintest whisper. Especially with the JubScalas, I can make out nearly every word that Rickie Lee Jones sings, and that's a new experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 In my opinion, if you do NOT have solid-state subwoofer support for any speaker that goes down to only 50Hz, you are missing out on a lot of content, tone and definition. The mid-bass punch of the Cornwalls makes this less apparent than the smoother LaScalas, but both of them need powerful subwoofer support in the nether regions. The problem however, is that big ole horns like the LaScalas have very high output (because they are so efficient it is easy to drive them LOUDLY). This means that not just any sub-woofer will match seamlessly with them. You need a very powerful one, which means larger and more expensive than the puny models typically schlepped at retail stores. A hearty "amen"! If I ever manage to squirm my way back into a set of big ol' horns, it will be La Scala II's (again) with a pair of big-daddy subs. The Velodyne DLS4000's I used when I had La Scala II's actually did a good job, just because I didn't push them that hard, due to the constraints of room size and hearing preservation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 you know that ka 1000 thx amp and the THX subs.. 120's do a great match too... hehehehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turntable3 Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Recently I tested a SVS PC12 NSD cylinder subwoofer and a Velodyne DD-10. Both failed my test because of their low input sensivity. Only at relatively high volume outputs from the Mark Levinson 320s the woofers made sound. At low levels there was nothing to hear even with full gain on the SVS. Very well done is the room measurement system of the Velodyne. The search for more bass is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2009 Yes, the flagship P-39F is the only Palladium model that comes out of Hope. The entire line is a worldwide collaboration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The search for more bass is going on. I have found a very good match between my La Scalas and a pair of VMPS Larger Subwoofers with Megawoofers. They have low distortion and were -4 dB at 16 Hz in my room. With 470 watts each, they can keep up. VMPS now have 2 new even larger subs. I started with one Larger Sub and a B&K M200. Internet lore was that the pair were used by NASA for sonic boom simulation, partially substantiated by VMPS. Nothing succeeds like excess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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