Schmidty Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 I know good cable makes a huge difference with video, but would some really good speaker cable make a difference in my situation? I have a decent receiver(JVC RX-9010V) with okay speaker wire (Radio Shack $20 for 50ft) hooked up to my KLF-30's, RC-3 II, and Quintet rears. Would getting some premium speaker cable make a big enough difference for the money? If so, what cable do you recommend? Thanks, Schmidty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Oh No! Here we go again! ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Yes, premium speaker cable will make a difference in sound quality; the questions are: 1. Will you hear the differences yourself, and 2. Will it be worth the money spent. I for one refused to put Radio Sh#@ cable between my $2400 amp and $1200 speakers, and have not regretted the cost of my decision. ------------------ Klipsch Fortes, Oiled Oak Klipsch KLF-C7 Center Channel McCormack DNA-1 Power Amp McCormack TLC Pre-Amp Sony 5-disc changer NHT SA3 Subwoofer Amp Hsu TN1220 Subwoofer Old Akai cassette Deck Akai AAR22 used as tuner Nordost Solar Wind interconnects Kimber 4TC Speaker Cable (Future upgrades to include): Klipsch RS-3 Surrounds Outlaw 1050 AV Receiver This message has been edited by chuckears on 02-27-2002 at 12:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Sometimes cables will make a difference and sometimes they won't. It depends entirely on your gear. In my case, after the cables exceed a certain gage, no further improvement can ge heard. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Search the BB under 2 channel. There is a 6 page discussion about this. The biggest change you may or may not hear is if you bi-wire your speakers. I am in the camp of speaker wire makes a big difference. I like solid wire over stranded. I just changed out Audio Quest to DH Silver Labs and I can tell a difference. I like the Audio Quest better. With the Audio Quest the bass sounded fuller. If you don't know exactly how to bi-wire check this site out. WWW.davidmannaudio.com Good Luck Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Schmidt, Yes cables do help,the question is HOW MUCH and will YOU hear it. As a member of the snooty audiophile squad I,TheEAR can hear a very slight change is some cases on music I know quite well. If you listen to Jazz,blues or any music with fine detail and texture,yes you may tell apart one cable from another...with very revealing speakers and very high quality amplification.On boom boom or rock and roll its just wasted,and wasted in a big way. Most of the time inexpensive Monster Cable,Audio Quest,Kimber(great choice) and other barnds will be A ok. I even use really inexpensive UltraLink cables and interconects and they workd great.And I mean great,as long as you dont look at the cable but listen to the music. On my mid-fi system,err my all Klipsch R series HT setup I use Monster M series M2.4B cables these are not cheap in any way.Do they change the sound over the much much "lesser" UltraLink cables...not much.I have to focus on specific details,then yes they sound better.But also cost 30 times more! And then at the top of the food chain I have the Monster Sigma cables,these are among the most expensive and gorgeous cables you can buy.Only worthy if you have the caliber of speaker the Dynaudio Contour 3.3 is and up.In one word OVERKILL,I however dont regret the purchase at all.Its all worthy to me,even a minute detail,the effect they bring.Its all in the overall result.And the result is damn good. Are cables worth the extra expense,to a point.You have to listen and decide. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Although I am just starting my Le Snobbe system, I have to say I cannot justify big dollar speakers. As of now, my humble JBL HLS 610's are hooked up with 12 gague "generic" wire, for my system, it will stay that way. Until I get a amp that doesn't have glue spattered inside of it and overspray on the case, I can see no point in expensive cables. Even if I got the RB-5II's I would go no higher than the cheapest Kimber Kable's. Another thought. Electronic interference is vert real. Is there "shelded" cable that SHOULD reduce electrical interference? How much is the cheapest Kimber? 4PR, which is their cheapest cable is $1.80 a foot. Is this a good place to start. I will NEVER audition cable, I have my dignity still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddio-guy Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 When I replaced a stock interconnect with a Clarity Wires cable ($79.00), I noticed clearer, more detailed sound, a slightly deeper soundstage, and more natural timbre. I'd expect speaker cable to produce similar improvements. Would I spend $500.00? No. But I would spend $150.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 The folks at McIntosh did blind tests many years ago. The result was that listeners could not hear the difference between cables as long as they were large enough gauge. Admittedly, this was before many of the esoteric speaker cable designs came about. There is no doubt that different speaker cables affect the signal differently because of differences in resistance, capacitance and inductance. And there are other factors that affect the signal. The questions are: Can your hear the difference? Is the difference in sound worth the difference in price to you? Can you get the same result by tweaking your tone controls? Would you rather spend your time finding the ultimate cable or listening to music? Its all up to you. Yes, there are shielded cables that work. Even twisted pair is an improvement over parallel wires in this respect. FWIW I am using 12 gauge twisted pair architectural cable in the walls and twelve gauge zip cord from the walls to the speakers. I am quite satisfied. But, then, I am not as critical a listener as some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 AWG 12 is the default. I like Belden because the wire certs to the AMS standard for OFHC wire. The high temperature grade has a black flexible outer jacket that is marginally better looking than clear sw. Braided ribbon cable for the tweeters has physical justification, I've tried it, I can't tell. become a participant in an double blind test, you'll end up saving a bundle over your "audiophile" career. (what do you mean you "disconnected" the tweeter???) This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-01-2002 at 06:40 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 There is so much discussion on this board and others on this issue. I would think someone would conduct a scientific blind test as MCIntosh did using a number of the new fancy cables on the market and a good sample of audio enthusiasts who could rate cables on a number of factors. But then who would conduct these tests? Any audio publication would risk the loss of advertisers. I think one of the regional consumer audio clubs would be ideally suited for such a project. Of course, like anything that people don't want to believe (due to a large investment in one position or another), there would probably still be endless debte about the scientific integrity of the tests. But I for one would be real interested in the results. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-01-2002 at 07:00 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Pidass Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Speaker cables make a difference but the "pay back" is at best questionable. Sure you don't want 50 gauge wire running 100 feet but lets get real here. Be reasonable about what you spend on wire. Your money is much better spent on other parts of your system. At the very least it should be one of the last things you upgrade. f>------------------ '81 Cornwall 1 mains B2 Crossover '73 Heresy Centre '78 Heresy Surrounds Paradigm PW220 Sub Subwoofer (18 hz) Marantz SR8000 AV Receiver Hitachi 53" RPTV 53SBX59B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I think Stu nailed it: why spend 500$ on speaker wire to get a small improvement, when you could spend an equal amount on better speakers and get a much bigger improvement? I mean, until you really can't upgrade your speakers anymore, or your amp or whatever, the price/performance ratio of buying better cables (assuming you already have decent-quality big-gauge wire) doesn't make sense compared to the same ratio in other areas of the system, no? ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragjr Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 http://www.sundial.net/~rogerr/wire.htmFor speaker wires, this is a good explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Seb, ] To take a slightly different perspective here, one could say (assuming one believes in speaker wires making a difference): Why save $500 by buying cheap speaker wire to go along with your $2,500 speakers, when for the 20% increase in purchase price ($2,500 to $3,000) to get proper cables, your speakers will sound a LOT better? ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Rag- I wonder if the same applies to interconnects? What about bi-wiring speakers? Comparison studies seem to be limited to regular Monster cable vs. zip cord? What about the more exotic wires. Would like to see more of these type of studies including a greater range of wire products. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I have found, with my system at least , that I can hear a greater difference by swapping interconnects than changing speaker cable... I have not read very much concrete about the sonic differences gained by bi-wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Tell ya what, I've got a spare 500' roll of 12 gauge lampcord type wire in the basement. If anyone WANTS to "trade" in their inferior audiophile type cables, I'll give em an equal length of the stuff. Heck, I'll even pay for shipping. What a guy, HUH?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Ray, I still think my pojnt holds. That 500$ in cables would have been better spent on better speakers, assuming again you already have decent-quality wire. SOUNDJUNKIE, I don't know where you were trying to go with this, nobody said the high-end stuff was INFERIOR, merely that it may or may not be worth the additional cost. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Seb, One of the points I'm trying to make is... it is all intrinsic value. The effect of a $5 or $5000 cable upgrade is worth something different to each of us. Some are ready, willing and able to pay mucho $ for what might be little sonic value to you or I, whilst others would not spend $50 for HUGE sonic improvements in their system that you or I would detect. Additionally, sometimes the more expensive cable doesn't improve the sound and the contrapositive is true(Sometimes the least expensive does), although generally better=more $$. It is, of course, a system dependent decision. I would agree that there are diminishing returns for any system with regards to cable upgrade,however, I would disagree with the notion that the money is better spent on the speakers alone. The playback chain is just that, a chain. Any weak link in that chain is going to yield poor performance. I am of the opinion that since the typical cost of cables within a system are 10-20% of it's total value and an upgrade would be a lower % of that total, it would seem to me the biggest bang for the buck might well be the cables. In Schmidty's case it might be an additional separate stereo amp for only $350 driving those speakers with $150 left over for cables(his 30's are not the weak link here...IMHO). I am not making a judgement call here on anyone specifically, but if I'm running a $3000 pr of B&W 802 S3 and Radio Shack speaker wire, what am I to gain by selling my 802's at a loss and spending $500 more on another used pair of 802's. Upgrade for "me" would be a pair of $6000 801's and I'm still running Rack Shack cable? I'd gladly go from AQ Lapisx3 to Kimber 1030 for my dollar. Would I get more by upgrading Forte's to Chorus instead of 2 sets of AQ Ruby to AQ Lapisx3?? Don't know unless we listen. I DO know Ruby's are very rolled off even in a SS system and upgrading them for $500 was well worth it in my case. For me, cables DO make a difference, for better or worse... and so do the electronics. In sum, since I am of the opinion that it is a worthwhile effort to upgrade cables within a system and others here MAY NOT feel the same, I am simply and graciously offering to rid those who feel encumbered by their ownership an even swap of my terrific cable. **FBI WARNING: The words contain here within are sole property of it's owner. Any resemblance to words of those living or dead are purely coincidental. Unauthorized reproduction, exhibition or distribution of copyrighted pros can result in severe criminal or civil penalties under laws of Klipschworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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