jwc Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 John. Thanks. I like to hear of reports like that. My jubilee like clone had full reflectors and played out very far. I always wondered what the compromise might be with full reflectors. yes.....no reason for PWK to put those in there with an intent for 400hz XO....but what would be the drawback....do you know?? The Crites/K33 will play way out there...nice driver for that (although the mass roll off is like 215Hz or something) jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 jwc, There would be 2 drawbacks. If the woofer/bass horn high frequency limit was too far above the crossover point, a more complex crossover would be required to limit overlap and preserve flat response, higher cost. The other is that is costs more to build the bass horn. I realize some may consider these to be trivial cost additions, but how often we have repeated the statement that Mr. Paul was a consumate engineer. Remember, good engineering is the cheapest design that fully meets the customer's requirements. It's not the best or most expensive. Anybody can build expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Very nice...thanks for your thoughts on this.. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 That's an interesting response. [] I hope I didn't insult you. Just about everybody I meet thinks engineering is just the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 That's an interesting response. I hope I didn't insult you. Just about everybody I meet thinks engineering is just the opposite. I truly like that response. This tells me that if one were to put reflectors in there........with the intent to get higher frequencies.....there is no acoustical compromise (from your point of view) on the low end or loss of overall SPL. Yes..PWK was a great engineer....but he had to make products to land in your living room.....so cost and size of the designs were were of importance... jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Whoa. John...is that your la scala build? It has reflectors. I would love to see a FR curve on that. jc Have you considered mouth braces for the bass horn? They would be avery good Idea. I like the corner deflectors I have thought about that and was wondering if anyone had tried it. I am going to put 3/4 x 3/4 inch red oak trim around the front and a smaller piece down the top of the dog house so it ties it all together this should stop some side vibration similar to this pair I built a few years back. Back to your side deflectors what was the results of this modification? Those are not mine. I kept the pic for illustration. Not necessarily attractive, but more effective than most any other stiffness mod, the mouth braces should be standard on any La Scala. I have a picture of Mr. Paul with a braced La Scala in the background. The outer walls of mine get to vibrating quite a lot when they get loud. The corner reflectors will extend the upper frequency response of the bass horn until it looks something like a Peavey FH-1. I can't recall anyone here curving a bass bin with the reflectors installed. Klipsch did not do it because it is not necessary with a K-400/K-55. They would help build a nice 2-way system. A La Scala's response has a dip at 500 Hz and starts falling pretty fast above 650 Hz. I'm going to try these on my next ones as I would want to put them in before the dog house just so I have more room to glue them in perfect. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Done with the first 3/4 inch red oak trim around the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Those look very solid. Nice work. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I'm curious to know if 1" plywood sides would do the same thing as adding braces, or would adding braces still be required? I'm going to be building La Scalas in a few weeks and I'm considering using 1" birch for at least some of the panels in the bass bin, but I'm wondering if it might be just as good to go with 3/4" and use braces. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Greg I think if you use 1" you don't need braces that is why the La scala II's went to 1" Ply bass bins.Again I think.[*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Greg I think if you use 1" you don't need braces that is why the La scala II's went to 1" Ply bass bins.Again I think. I know the set that Trey sold had 1" ply but I thought that they were from a prototype run with the production models being 1" MDF. Either way, 1" seems to move the resonant frequency up past the crossover frequency for the woofer. -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Is it a big improvement? I am hoping that adding the 3/4 inch red oak wood trim around the front will help a little with the side vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Actually I have no idea as I've only heard stock LS bass bins. I kind of doubt that just adding trim will help that much. It looks awesome though [Y][H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWoof Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 hey that's what I wanna know does a thicker walled cabinet make the bass response Better ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Greg I think if you use 1" you don't need braces that is why the La scala II's went to 1" Ply bass bins.Again I think. I know the set that Trey sold had 1" ply but I thought that they were from a prototype run with the production models being 1" MDF. Either way, 1" seems to move the resonant frequency up past the crossover frequency for the woofer. -Josh I'm leaning towards doing both the 1" and the braces. I think the 1" is only going to really make a difference on the sides, I doubt it would be any advantage on the rest. But I would also do the top and bottom of the bass bin so the front edge thickness is the same. I'm building split LS's. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Greg you have braced a few pair of 3/4 inch La scalas is there a big difference as I am sure you have A B tested them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I listened to stock La Scala's 3/4" bass bins and was never unhappy with their performance. One thing, if you weren't satisfied with the sound and wanted to add braces, they are easy enough to do after the cabs are finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_66 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Greg I think if you use 1" you don't need braces that is why the La scala II's went to 1" Ply bass bins.Again I think. I have to agree completely. I'm in the middle of a 1" La Scala rebuild and the difference between a stock 3/4" and 1" is remarkably different. Yes, it's only 1/4", but that is 33 percent more. I have a stock pair and the 1" side by side and when hit with a knuckle the comparison is dramatic. Even the bass bin is more solid. Keep in mind, these are stock cabinets with 1/4" mdf laminated. Look at all of the threads on rope caulk. Most have been disputed due to the fact that the horn wasn't solid against the motor board. The La Scala cabinet is exactly the same. It's just an extension of the bass horn. There are two ways to remedy the resonance. Brace the sides, or add damping to the sides. Klipsch has already made the modifications, and opted with the 1" mdf. Killer thread KG4. Your work bench is a piece of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Those are looking great and thanks for the info on the A B test between the 3/4" and 1" are sure it wasn't the crossovers?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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