Trachorns in the House

[deafbykhorns]

Horns arrived yesterday and were packed well as expected. It took a whole 30

minutes to install these thanks to the great instructions and pictures. I

put on the first CD and my jaw dropped, I really was not expecting a

dramatic difference in horns like I experienced with the ALK universals.

Wow, it was like I removed a rag or something from the old horns. I can

actually hear better separation of instruments, improved imaging and a

lifelike sound, like I was sitting front row/center. What was Klipsch

thinking when they casted the K-400? I believe the KHorns will be here

another 20 years if I last that long. Please don't tell me the 2" horns your

about to release will be much better, I don't think my bank account can

handle anymore upgrades. BTW: It seems that 0-3 is the right setting for the

Trachorns.

[Al Klappenberger]

John,

The new Trachorn 402 will simply allow a better quality driver, that is actually designed to be crossed over at 400 Hz, to be used to replace the old K55. I doubt it will be as dramatic an improvement as getting rid of the stock horn was. I noticed an improvement when I replaced the K55s in my Belles with JBL 2426h 1-inch drivers, but the horn upgrade was a much bigger improvement. The JBL 2426 was intended to be crossed at 800 Hz but JBL says they can be used to 500Hz with reduced power (20W between 500 and 800Hz). That's fine for the Belle, but stretching them down to 400 Hz for the Khorn is workable with a sharper slope crossover, but definitely exceeds their specifications. I expect to be using the B&C DCM50 in the Trachorn 402 for use in the Khorn.

Al K.

[seti]

I'm currently using the b&c de82tn with some horns and they have been growing on me.

[kevinmi]

I'm really happy with the Selenium D405 (phenolic) 2" drivers on my big horns, and at $125.00 ea., they won't break the bank.

[Al Klappenberger]

I think the two posts above illustrate why a 2-inch horn is a good idea to spite my previous resistance to the idea. It opens up a new world of alternatives to the K55 in the Khorn.

The de 82TN is a 1.4 inch driver and would take some sort of adaptor to fit on a 2 inch horn, but I think it would be an improvement over the K55.

Al K.

[Deang]

Al, just a friendly suggestion: Since Klipsch has the K-402, I wouldn't call the new horn "Trachorn 402". Why not something simple like "Trachorn2". Don't know, I see the potential for some confusion down the road when people are discussing the different horns.

[Al Klappenberger]

Dean,

I hadn't thought of that! You have a point there. I need to rethink the designation.

I'm not crazy about Trachorn2. Maybe Trachorn 420, which would allow for the possibility of a Trachorn 414 someday to fit a 1.4 inch driver! I can't see any reason to do a 1.4 inch horn though.

Al K.

Afterthought: I just ran the numbers to see how long a 2 inch square to 1.4 inch round adapter would be. It comes out to about 3.2 Inches.

[Crossman]

I'm really happy with the Selenium D405 (phenolic) 2" drivers on my big horns, and at $125.00 ea., they won't break the bank.

Which crossover are you using with this driver and what is your bass cutoff frequency?

[Guest David H]

Which crossover are you using with this driver and what is your bass cutoff frequency?

Not Again...

Kevin is running a clone of the ALK Universal crossover. Woofer crossover point is 400hz.

Dave.

[Nailbender]

Al,

You may want to put the depth in the name of the horn also. That way I'll know when you develop one to fit in my Cornscala. Maybe Trachorn 20X?? or 14X??.

[Al Klappenberger]

Brian,

The length of the new 2-inch horn will be 9.87 Inch compared to 14.46 Inch of the current 1-inch horn. This is withOUT the driver though. I expect to have all the dimensions of the new horn on my web site when I get it ready. I think you might be able to find a driver for use with any 2-inch horn that is small enough to fit considering the direct radiator woofer in most CornScala projects will go up high enough to allow a 500 or 600 Hz crossover. That gives you a large selection of possible drivers to choose from. The B&C driver I hope to use has to be rather large to handle the 400 Hz crossover the Khorn needs.

Al K.

BTW: I'm still expecting to call it the Trachorn 420. I figure I need to keep it simple.

[Nailbender]

Al,

I'm hoping to use BMS 4592ND-MID 16ohm drivers with my universal crossover. I'll look for some while I'm in Germany on vacation in April. I'll have to save my money to get this and some extreme slope crossovers in the future. My wife asks me, "When will it ever end?"

P.S. I like simple.

Thanks, Brian.

[Al Klappenberger]

Brian,

The more I look at the big BMS 4591 and 92 drivers the less I think of them. These drivers are just not appropriate for the Khorn and especially not for the Belle or CornScala. In the first place, they are very expensive and are designed for use down to 300 Hz. The Khorn should be crossed over at 400 Hz. The Belle Klipsch at 500 Hz. The CornScalas can even be crossed over higher yet. Maybe even at 600 Hz where the Cornwall is crossed over. The midrange horn is the determining factor. Nobody is going to cross over at 300 Hz for a horn designed to go down to 250 Hz! Where are you going to get a good 300 Hz crossover network? I am not going to make one. The second reason is the extremely high sensitivity of 118 dB they can give you. All you will be doing is wasting all that sensitivity by cutting it down to 99 to 104 dB to match the Khorn or Belle woofer and even less for the Cornscala. Why?

The other feature of the BMS driver is the coaxial tweeter option. Here again the B&C driver has this same capability. The DCM50 is a midrange driver that will go up to 10K. The DCX50 is the coaxial version that will extend its range to 16K. That's as highs as most of us can hear and as high as the K77 tweeter will go. If you really want to Hear 20 KHz, buy Bob Crites CT125 tweeters, patronize someone in our own community and save some money too!

You should really consider why it is you are interested in the BMS driver. Is it because you are hearing so much buzz about it here on the form, or is it for some serious reason?

AL K.

[CECAA850]

BTW: I'm still expecting to call it the Trachorn 420. I figure I need to keep it simple.

That's a smokin good name.

[Johnny's Jill]

All specs aside, the BMS is a fantastic sounding driver. I am sure the B&C will do fine as well, but I wouldn't discount the BMS.

[Al Klappenberger]

Johnny,

I never said the BMS wasn't a good driver, I'm just saying that it's like shooting mice with an elephant gun! It's just too big and expensive for this application. There are too may other options once you move to a 2-inch driver. Why stick yourself with something obviously not designed for a living room situation at a big price!

Al K.

[Johnny's Jill]

Why stick yourself with something obviously not designed for a living room situation at a big price!

2 inch horn drivers were never meant for living room situations yet everyone seems to be using them.

I see your point but I certinly don't mind paying extra for a product that exceeds my needs as long as is performs well for my application.

More often than not I see one person in a vehicle that seats 4, with 300 hp driving 55 mph.

[Nailbender]

Al,

It seems I may have touched a nerve with you and this driver. I think I understand what you are saying, but how does it sound? I just want to open up and smooth out my mid range.

[Al Klappenberger]

Guys,

All I am trying to do is to try to put a little common sense into what seems to be a snowballing trend. How much is enough? Anyone want to stat pushing for a 4-inch horn and driver? It would be the next logical step! If a little is good, a lot should be even better. As I see it, the problem is finding a better driver than the K55 in the Khorn. It's hard, if not impossible to do until you move to a 2-inch horn. I think the logical place to stop is with a 2-inch driver that works within the overall design of the Khorn. That is, a driver that is designed to be crossed over where the Khorn is designed to be crossed over. This is 400 Hz, not 300 Hz. It is has 104 dB of sensitivity (actually, I consistently measure 99-100 dB) so who needs a driver that has 118 dB of sensitivity? You are just going to have to cut it down. This BMS driver is simply overkill! The B&C driver I am suggesting is designed for a 400 Hz crossover and has a sensitivity of 106 dB. Who needs more? What happens when you put a Porsche engine in a Volkswagen? First thing the goes is the transmission, then the rear end, then the breaks. There are consequences to upsetting the balance. All good engineering is a balance of compromises! Actually, I have yet to get my hands on a set of B&C DCM50 drivers. That is a couple weeks off. Maybe it won't be worth a crap, but if it sounds as good as it looks on paper, it will fit the Khorn like a glove!.

Al K.

[Johnny's Jill]

This BMS driver is simply overkill!

Al, my point is simply the BMS is a tried and true performer, and there is no rule that says you must cross the BMS at 300hz, I am not sure anyone would want to.

I hope the B&C does as well, specs look excellent and I expect it will sound great.

What I cant believe is the voice of reason is coming from the designer of the 120db Extreme Slope Crossover. It would be like you saying 12db is steep enough.

Sorry for the hi jack... Craig