Mallette Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 The part with him physically present occured in around 3 hours time at the Hope plant about 40 years ago. However, in those three hours with the Legend to myself I received the equivalent of a data dump which I have been parsing ever since and formed the basis of everything I do in audio from listening to engineering. Paul answered the question I was competent to ask (as well as those that were downright dumb), but more importanly answered questions I did not even have a basis to form. He was like that - He knew what any music lover would need and made sure the left with it. From that, I want to throw out a couple of things that he made very clear to me that may not be so clear to others in the forum. 1. The Klipschorn is the cheapest accurate transducer feasible. 2. No other Klispch speaker, or from anyone else, equals or exceeds statement 1. (there was no Klipsch but heritage then) Basically, what I understood Paul to say was that his other speakers were designed purely to fill in the center channel he believed should be present, or to be used by those who preferred appearance to accuracy or had a space without useful corners, and that it simply wasn't possible to improve on the K'horn as described in "1." Jub owners, please note the "cheapeast" before objecting... Thoughts? Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Very cool. I never had a chance to meet him. My dad did and said he was a brilliant character. Of course Jubs were probably gestating in his brain back then. : ) It is very simple to get a great sounding system with Klipschorns. At least that is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Jub owners, please note the "cheapeast" before objecting... We'll let you slide....this time.... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Jub owners, please note the "cheapeast" before objecting... We'll let you slide....this time.... You are a gentleman and a scholar...[A] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I should add that I am in agreement with you. I think it's cool that you met him. I moved from Ohio to Iowa to Indiana and have a clear memory of thinking in 1985/86 "I'd sure love to go see the factory where my LaScalas were made". I also felt that to meet Mr. Klipsch would be one of the coolest things... I then slapped myself, thinking, what normal human being has an interest in traveling 12 hours away to see a factory where a speaker is made? He (PWK) would probably have me arrested for trespassing and/or stalking... Today, I'm slapping myself for not originally listening to my inner voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Today, I'm slapping myself for not originally listening to my inner voice. As well you should. Unless he underwent a major character change, he'd have welcomed you and made you feel you were the first person he'd ever shared his thoughts with as well as the most important. I am in no way overstating. IMHO, that is the definition of a truly great human. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Today, I'm slapping myself for not originally listening to my inner voice. As well you should. Unless he underwent a major character change, he'd have welcomed you and made you feel you were the first person he'd ever shared his thoughts with as well as the most important. I am in no way overstating. IMHO, that is the definition of a truly great human. Dave Having met Paul myself, I totally roger that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Great Stuff Dave, thanks for posting it. It was my understanding that the La Scala was made for Winthrop A. Rockefeller as he campaigned for Governor. I think I learned that on the web (so it must be right, right?LOL) Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks, Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Please correct me if I am wrong. Can't help, Dennie. Ol'fahrt must've been holding out on me. I thought he told me EVERYTHING during that 3 hours! [] Let me pass on, however, another little triviality or two. In one room I saw a very small (compared to a K'horn) horn loaded system and asked him about it. He said "That's a Dixielander" and left it at that. So, for a couple of decades, I thought there had been small Klipsch system by that name that had either long gone out of production or never made it there. It was only in the last decade I learned that it was another of Jack Frazier's designs, not Paul. Some of you may recall I learned of Frazier from Paul by asking what the little bookshelf speakers he used to demonstrate the corner effect by moving them in and out of the corner while they played were, and he identified them as Frazier midgets. I asked for more info, and he volunteered that Jack Frazier was about the only other designer for whom he had much respect. It was much later (in the past 10 years) that I came to the firm belief that Heresy was Paul's answer to Jack's Mark IV, and that Jack's Model 11 (just a silly db more efficient at 107db/w without a horn in it) was Jack's response to the K'horn. I believe these two men are still at it somewhere, somewhen. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Today, I'm slapping myself for not originally listening to my inner voice. As well you should. Unless he underwent a major character change, he'd have welcomed you and made you feel you were the first person he'd ever shared his thoughts with as well as the most important. I am in no way overstating. IMHO, that is the definition of a truly great human. Dave My (ex) wife and I spent a full day with him in Hope, Aug. of 1985, he was 81 and was recovering from surgery. Made me feel like his long lost grandson. Answered all my questions, took me into the Lab and Anechoic Chamber. Drove me and wifey in his Mercedes all day. Brouth us to local Rotary Club for lunch and while he was explaining time delay though a garden hose with a microphone to me, the President of the Club asked my wife "So, have known Mr. Klipsch for a long time?" She said "No, we only met 2 hours ago." His jaw almost hit the table, stating that Mr. Klipsch had been a member for several decades and had NEVER brought a guest there, in fact she was the first woman to be invited there. Afterwards, a trip to the museum, then to the Klipsch home where we met Valerie Klipsh, drank some Glenfiddich scotch and listerned to his recording on his 2PH3 (2 straight from the factory Khorns in Walnut with a Matching Belle in the middle) system with false corners in the middle of a huge living room. the system was next to a Steinway and Bosendorfer Grand pianos (Vallie was a piano teacher). He then made a phone call and a lady opened her restaurant just for the 4 of us in the next town over (New Washington?). He drove us back to our hotel at about 7:00 PM after dinner and we all had tears in our eyes. Incredible experience I shall NEVER forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 OK, completely outclassed with that one... However, I was only 20 and somehow I suspect your wife is a looker... Correct? In any event, if anyone can escalate beyond this (...finally, he insisted we accept a pair of Ebony Klipshorns delivered to our home) we should ask the Bishop of Rome to begin the beatification process. Fun aside, he was a giant of a human. Brilliant, in your face, no BS...and at the same time a complete gentleman. If your gonna hero worship, you cannot do much better than that. However, I didn't really mean to start a "Hail fellow well met..." (though feel free...I enjoy these stories) as much as to determine how many of us are true believers. I am in total acceptance of the 8 Cardinal Rules. I'll suggest the center speaker is optional if you have perfectly spaced corners, but the rest of it is LAW to me. So, there's the P39F. Never heard them, but they carry the Klipsch name and even without hearing them I suspect they sound as good as a K'horn paired with the right stuff and likely don't need a corner to do it. However, they also cost 20k and probably can't do thier stuff when paired with a Sonic or home brew SET amp like a K'horn can. That's my point. Anybody find a way, as Paul said, to shorten a 32hz wave so it can be reproduced at minimum distortion, minimum power, and so in less footprint and at lower cost than a K'horn? Enquiring audiophiles want to know... Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I've spent many hours sitting in my shop admiring the cut-a-way Khorn. I can't think of a single improvement that wouldn't add to the complexity, cost, weight, or size. It's an incredible design - perfectly balanced - brilliantly optimized. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Nice cutaway there Greg. But I like the 928 even better! Your screen name and roof antenna point to a GTS version. A very fast and powerful car, love it. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 23, 2010 Author Share Posted April 23, 2010 Yep, the 928 is cool...but not in the class of the K'horn. My question is: What are you doing with a cutaway K'horn????? Granted, it is a sight to behold and contemplate, but looking at a cutaway K'horn is a lot like looking a beautifyl woman undergoing an appendectomy. That's cool, but I'd much prefer to get her sewed up and back in service... [6] I "30'd" another thread here due to the presense of an intolerable individual (which means a lot given I have a VERY high tolerance). I wish I had not felt compelled to do that as it was an extraordinary thread. One point made there is germane to your comments on the perfection of the design: Bigger is only better when it is determined by a design goal that meets the 8 Cardinal Rules. In the case of the K'horn, PWK determined that 32hz was his goal. So far, no one has produced a design that is any smaller that can reproduce a 32hz tone and meet the 8 Cardinal Rules at the same time. Jack Frazier built the Model Eleven with 1 db greater efficieny and extension down to 20hz...but it is considerably larger and was more expensive, and has greater cone excursion. That's one of the 8 Card and two corollaries violated, so no cigar. Speaker size, if you are a devotee of the 8 Cardinal Rules, is going to be determined by the ability to reproduce the desired frequency range at the lowest possible cost, with the least possible cone excursion, with the smallest possible form factor. I am not looking at them right now, so I may have overlooked something, but that is pretty much the concept. Frazier's modified Helmholtz resonator is a truly marvelous thing that comes closest to meeting the 8 Cardinal Rules, but is not capable of doing so either at the same cost as a K'horn or at the same size. I do not know of any other designs that exist that can. So, you are correct: The K'horn represents the best our technology has to offer until we can either (in Paul's words) develop a shorter 32hz wavelength or some as yet unknown means of transduction from electrical systems to modulated air. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 23, 2010 Author Share Posted April 23, 2010 if you are a devotee of the 8 Cardinal Rules What are the 8 rules? When you say "rule" - what is the authority behind the rule? (I ask because I never heard this before.) The 8 Cardinal Rules are from the seminal Audio Engineering Society paper PWK wrote in the 40's and based the K'horn on, as well as the rest of the Heritage line except Heresy...which he called that because it violated the 8 Card (as he called it). It is also the main basis for his status as "a legend in sound." I still have the copy he gave me. You might search the Fora for a copy. If you don't find one, let me know and I'll pdf a copy and upload. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Hey Claude............show us the X............[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Except for the time delay issues, which are, arguably important (someting I fixed with my "stack"). I did it for less money than used Khorns with all used stuff. But Yes, I lived with Khorns for 30 years.....stocked and re capped. Hard to improve on optimized physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 OK, completely outclassed with that one... However, I was only 20 and somehow I suspect your wife is a looker... Correct? Sharing expercience, not trying to outclass at all. We were both 31 (she arranged the trip through a dealer for my birthday gift that year). Yes she was a cute little thing and still is, although she is my EX-wife as of last year. I wrote a letter to Paul asking to meet him in person. He never responded but he was there for sure that day. We almost didn't make it because we had to drive as our commuter flight got cancelled as all the parts lay on the runway in Dallas. Woody Jackson, the VP of Marketing told Paul out story, so the first thing PWK does is apologized for not sending the "company bird" after us....likej wow, talking about feeling important from the getgo giving a great first impression. It never let up after that. It was an incredible 10 hours straight with a great host. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 23, 2010 Author Share Posted April 23, 2010 Actually, the 6 is the engineering paper that is pretty well undisputed scientifically. His later extrapolations are, perhaps, more debatable. Pardon my memory lapse... Did you locat a copy? The real deal will reference the AES on it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 23, 2010 Author Share Posted April 23, 2010 Did you locat a copy? No. But I found a lot of references to some guy named Dave Mallette and his Six Cardinal Rules of Sound Aquisition! [:$] However, with due apologies to the the Legend and containing the inverse of several of the "real deal". Watch this thread for a pdf posting of PWK's original paper. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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