Moderators dtel Posted June 14, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2010 Picky, not trying to take over your thread, just filling in to you come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 14, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2010 A little Wes Jean, I think his name is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 14, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2010 And his drummer, working hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 14, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2010 Since we went this far, his bass player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 WOW, looks like a great time had by all. Thanks for all the pictures and thoughts on the weekend. Really wish I could have made it. By any chance, does anyone have a total group shot? How many members showed up? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I have NO idea how the power was split up, BUT here's the beef that did the job. well that's not monitor racks (usually incorporate multiple 31 band eq's), so my guess is that there was a channel per sub cabinet. I think I counted 10-12 extra subs, not including Steve's KP600 rig. Anybody get a picture of the BACK of the amp racks? I drive my KPT 682's with a Crown K2 per cabinet, but that's way more headroom than most guys have. The KP600's were powered with XTI-4000 for the Sub and LF, and then a XTI-2000 for the MF and HF. Delays and EQ were performed inside the XTi amps. The 8 KP682's in the middle were powered with four Behringer EP-4000's that were aux fed from the mixer. Each channel was driving a single dual 18" bin. Graphic EQ's were located at the mix position (no separate monitor mixer). The EQ for the mains was bypassed. For processing I believe there were 12 channels of Behringer Compressor/Limiters and then two boxes for effects (I don't recall the model name off hand). The stage was pre-wired with separate 500A and 200A service, which was really nice. We had a huge Distro box with about 20 breakers and plenty of Furman conditioners in each of the racks. The monitor speakers were all Behringer wedges. The board was an A&H GL4800...one of my favorites (as long as you don't overdrive it cuz they clip real nasty). During some of the loud passages, I was told that the amps for the KP600's were only flickering the -10dB light....all the Behringer amps driving the 682's were hitting the clip light. I think the most impressive thing was just how clean the highs were....and the amount of throw we were getting. There was no tonal balance shift, even as far back as 500ft or so. And to think the tweets are just a pair of K-77's on each side in a dual manifolded horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I have NO idea how the power was split up, BUT here's the beef that did the job. well that's not monitor racks (usually incorporate multiple 31 band eq's), so my guess is that there was a channel per sub cabinet. I think I counted 10-12 extra subs, not including Steve's KP600 rig. Anybody get a picture of the BACK of the amp racks? I drive my KPT 682's with a Crown K2 per cabinet, but that's way more headroom than most guys have. The KP600's were powered with XTI-4000 for the Sub and LF, and then a XTI-2000 for the MF and HF. Delays and EQ were performed inside the XTi amps. The 8 KP682's in the middle were powered with four Behringer EP-4000's that were aux fed from the mixer. Each channel was driving a single dual 18" bin. Graphic EQ's were located at the mix position (no separate monitor mixer). The EQ for the mains was bypassed. For processing I believe there were 12 channels of Behringer Compressor/Limiters and then two boxes for effects (I don't recall the model name off hand). The stage was pre-wired with separate 500A and 200A service, which was really nice. We had a huge Distro box with about 20 breakers and plenty of Furman conditioners in each of the racks. The monitor speakers were all Behringer wedges. The board was an A&H GL4800...one of my favorites (as long as you don't overdrive it cuz they clip real nasty). During some of the loud passages, I was told that the amps for the KP600's were only flickering the -10dB light....all the Behringer amps driving the 682's were hitting the clip light. I think the most impressive thing was just how clean the highs were....and the amount of throw we were getting. There was no tonal balance shift, even as far back as 500ft or so. And to think the tweets are just a pair of K-77's on each side in a dual manifolded horn. Are you sure Doc?! I found this there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Just kiddin, that panel was in the Klipsch facility. To confirm, the XTI's were only at -10 db at the loudest, when I was taking pics I took a peek at the XTI front panel level indicators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Thanks Doc! Good replay there. What did you think of the Behringer amps? On the KP650HF, the K78 motors (the working half of a K77) only handle the very top octave (10kHz to 17kHz), not nearly two octaves as on Heritage stock. The big K60 motors are doing most of the work, quite a bit of bandwidth really- from 1kHz to 10kHz. And the passive network that splits the HF duties (the system is 4/5 way - subs, LF, 10" mid, then the two sets of horns with two drivers each, being 2x K60 and 2x K78 motors) has a very high parts count so I'd imagine that network is working at 18 or 24 db/octave. The tweeter portion is also fused internally for protection. The brochure calls the manifolds 'two-barrel', I like that terminology. Glad to hear that it carried well. Here's the entire KP600 brochure for all you propeller-heads out there who need to know more. KP 600.pdf KP 600.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 The REALLY BIG KP 600 full owner's manual for the criminally curious. The sections on networks, wiring options, and stacking are a bit tedious but hey, this thing is complicated. It's important to get it right. Once the operator has his system setup and wired correctly, it's pretty much plug and play (except that nearly all the connectors are the same so you've got to have your thinking cap on when you wire it up - hint: color code connectors and jacks). Important - when firing up large multi systems like this- check the Subs and LF cabinets for output FIRST. That way if your subs are starting to tweet you'll just have a few wired to swap. This avoids sending LF to the tweeter packs by accident. And above all- have FUN - any day you get to make music is a good day. KP-600.pdf KP-600.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 various sections of the KP600 stacks as measured in my driveway by Doc's Rig. This is pre-rework, so I know that the sub woofers were a bit saggy and possibly K78 motors weren't all working as of this measurement (it dies at 10k pretty much, where they're supposed to take over). Mine are being refurbished this summer but need a lot more work than any of the three systems purchased from Opti-Case Dave. btw, I found a orange Samsonite the other day, time for my test rig, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Anybody get a picture of the BACK of the amp racks? Not sure if everything was connected when I shot that pic ? YES that's what I'm looking for. Thanks for all the great photos guys. Doc that's a really nice board. Looks like splitter on top of the short rack (with main snake on the 2-wheeled dolly). Was there a monitor mixer board on stage, and if so, who ran that during the show? Kinda wondering about a few things: -what's that red thingy on the cart with stage box? -in the amp rack photo, looks like pretty thin speaker wires coming from the amps in lower right corner - appears some amps not even used on this day (no speakon or banana connected)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Doc, what's the deal with PA companies using an AUX feed for the subs? (guys, this is using a knob on each mixer channel to decide how much of each instrument gets fed to the Subs - or none at all- just like sending to the effects units or monitors) Don't we want the music to be all homogenous? I mean, if you leave an instrument out of the SUB feed, you'll not get frequencies below 100 Hz or so out of it. Kind of like leaving the LF rumble button down for that channel. I found this at KWSWF when they wired the mains this way and then only sent kick and bass to subs. My first order of business was to feed the Leslie LF Beta52 to the Subs also. It's almost like you're got to run a separate mix for the SUB frequencies which I find confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 pmsummer Rooms were nice, bathtubs were real (no Corvette body materials), fridge/microwave/flatscreen TV, free wi-fi and better-than-most breakfast bar... $45 a night. PM, what's wrong with Corvette body materials??? [:'(] I forgot to mention what a GORGEOUS Corvette you have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 pmsummer Rooms were nice, bathtubs were real (no Corvette body materials), fridge/microwave/flatscreen TV, free wi-fi and better-than-most breakfast bar... $45 a night. PM, what's wrong with Corvette body materials??? [:'(] I forgot to mention what a GORGEOUS Corvette you have! No matter how many drinks I handed him he wouldn't let me borrow the keys [:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Took a little time away from all the blogging yesterday afternoon and took the Metra train to downtown Chicago with Verna and Michael Hurd. About all we had time to do was visit the Sears Tower, currently named "Willis Tower". "What choo talkin' about?" (RIP Gary). We went up to the Skydeck observation level 103 floors up knowing there would be zero visibility due to the extreme overcast conditions yesterday. We spent about an hour up there taking photos each time the clouds would part. As you can see, Michael and I braved stepping out on "The Edge" as they call it too. It's a bit freaky at first, but what a view! Heck, it's only a 1,400 foot drop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Back to the Friday afternoon working plant tour: This is an awesome machine. It's totally automated, mutli-head, robotic router and it can perform mutiple operations on multiple pieces of work simultaneously. It's primarily used to cut the speaker holes and ports out of motor boards and the slots in baffle boards, etc. of the MDF and plywood used to construction all of the speaker cabinets. The aids in controlling consistency. Correction: Thanks to fellow member thumperxes: This machine is actually an automated panel saw. Thanks for the corrected information. I've gottta bring a darned notebook with me next time! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 These gentlemen are building RF-7 Classic enclosures from scratch. Each of the sides and the top have already been cut out. These men lay them out on a table, line them up with one-another carefully. Then use a clear tape that does not leave adhesive behind on the wood to bind the pieces together. Pink glue is applied to all of the edge bevels. The tape becomes a sort of "hinge" as the parts are fitted into a box shape. A brad nailer is used to secure the parts until the glue dries. A very unique and inexpensive way to control assembly variability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Stacks of RF-7 motor boards lay in wait as the guys carefully align the first two pieces... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Working on the last RF-7 assembly the two men built, the folllowing process is another gentleman applies glue to the upper beveled edges of all of the sides that have just been secured into a box shape by the first two men. After applying the glue, he carefully fits the cabinet's top piece onto the glued side-edges and presses the top into place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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