The Absolute Sound: Klipschorn is one of the 12 most significant speakers of all time

[LarryC]

The latest, September 2010 issue of The Absolute Sound prominently displays the Klipschorn as one of "The 12 Most Significant Loudspeakers of All Time." The K-horn is No. 12, which makes it the first speaker shown and discussed in the article (pp. 34-38). Very good things are said about it -- "The base (sic) horn design has never been improved -- it was perfect from day one, the first 'absolute sound' ... Most amazing is that you can buy it today."

Naturally, it's in world-class company: the KLH Model Nine (No. 9), Infinity IRS V (No. 8), Dahlquist DQ-10 (No. 6), AR3a (No. 2) (which captured 33% of the hi-fi speaker market for a time), and the Quad ESL-57/63 (No. 1).

[gnatnoop]

The latest, September 2020 issue of The Absolute Sound prominently displays the Klipschorn as one of "The 12 Most Significant Loudspeakers of All Time." The K-horn is No. 12, which makes it the first speaker shown and discussed in the article (pp. 34-38). Very good things are said about it -- "The base (sic) horn design has never been improved -- it was perfect from day one, the first 'absolute sound' ... Most amazing is that you can buy it today."

Naturally, it's in world-class company: the KLH Model Nine (No. 9), Infinity IRS V (No. 8), Dahlquist DQ-10 (No. 6), AR3a (No. 2) (which captured 33% of the hi-fi speaker market for a time), and the Quad ESL-57/63 (No. 1).

do i have to wait 10 years to read it?[H]

[Dennie]

Thanks Larry, I will swing by Borders tomorrow and pick it up.

Dennie

[LarryC]

do i have to wait 10 years to read it?

YIKES! I corrected my post. Sorry[8o|][]

[gnatnoop]

do i have to wait 10 years to read it?

YIKES! I corrected my post. Sorry

np, i'm just being an ahole, only thing i'm good at! thanks for posting!

[texas42]

Considering the legacy and stature of the speaker I was shocked to see it came in so low (#12). And I dont see how the Magico Mini II came in at number 5. I know Magico is a TAS darling, but come on...#5? I wasn't even aware of this speaker (I did know the company) until I read the article. I was familiar with ALL of the other speakers though. Just my rambling thoughts...I would have ranked the KHorn at least in the top 3. I knew before reading the article they would put the Quad ESL number 1.

[Boxx]

I am also surprised at the #12 ranking of the KHorn.

However, I'm not surprised with the ranking of the AR3a. I have a pair (restored to original specs) and they are remarkable.

[runninshine]

A few of you have AR3a's here, what makes them sound so good? They are great looking speakers.

[Groomlakearea51]

Having discussed the K'horns with a bazillion folks (usually over a few brews while demonstrating just what them bad boys will do...), I have come to the conclusion that the reason they are never ranked number #1 is because of their size. Almost everyone told me they would kill their firstborn, sell their wife into slavery, buy quality beer, etc to own a pair, but the size and the requirement for the corners became the show stopper. It's always a "would'a, could'a, should'a" thing. Many old friends from days gone by who have come here and sat in the "Wall of Voodoo", have painfully admitted that the big black beasts (the ones in the WOV) just make them want to go home and cry (and burn their Martin-Logans that they spent a gajillion bucks for and are not quite as good...).

Oh well, C'est La Vie!! Now back to some didgeridoo music to settle my nerves....

[H]

[seti]

If I ever pick up a pair of speakers that are not klipsch they will be Quad ESL's. They seem to be the opposite approach. They are beautiful and modern looking.I think I could fit them in the bedroom : )

[Dennie]

I went to my local Borders Books to pick up this mag. but they did not have it. Heck, they didn't have much. I don't think they will be around much longer, as they are owned by Barnes and Noble, which is up for sale. []

Dennie

[garyrc]

I,too, would have ranked Khorns the top 3 or so. Of the people i know who don't like them, the objection often reduces to "they don't veil the defects in poor recordings," or they are too "up-front."

Somewhere there is a photograph of a mixing session for one of the 70 mm films, where there are 5 KLH 9s in an arc around the mixers ... so cool.

As to the AR 3As, they are pretty well balanced, but I have never heard them reproduce the dramatic dynamics I hear on my Khorns, and there is more veiling than i like. Still good, though. The dynamic problem may be partly due to a lack of amplifier power .... the only place I have heard Bose 901s with high dynamics is Alphonso's Mercantile in Mendocino Village, CA. Alphonso uses more than 1,000 watts of McIntosh power into those babies ... maybe the ARs would sound great with that kind of input.

[soundbound]

I own a set of AR11 speakers which should sound like the AR 3A speakers. I own a set of Klipschorns. The AR11 speakers sound good, but can't put out what the Klipschorns can.

[fini]

Well, I dig my Khorns. As far as ARs, I have a pair of LSTs I've never even fired up. Bought 'em for $500 from a retired music teacher (along with a Pioneer PL-41 and a Pioneer SX-1050...plenty o' power), who had some funky repair shop replace one of the woofers with some off-brand junk. I bought the correct replacement, sent both woofs off to Millersound in PA. Gotta get 'round to trying them out. I know they have a loyal following, and fetch around 2K for nice examples. I doubt they'd "float my boat" higher than Mr. K's "artwork."

[jdm56]

I would definitely put the mighty klipschorn higher up the list. I'd also put the Bose 901 on the list. And the original Advent. And how about the ADS mini-speaker? (L200?) Bose cubes?? ...maybe. I guess you'd have to define "significant". [:S]

[Groomlakearea51]

I'd also put the Bose 901 on the list. I guess you'd have to define "significant".

Don't laugh! The introduction of the 901 was, afterall, the antithesis of "normal" speaker design, including horn loaded types. I've had several pairs (original Type I's from 1968, and a "test" pair of the new type VI's about 2 years ago). Whether we (as in the Forum members) like the 901 or not, it still stands to reason that is is one of the "significant" speakers designed and produced. And I will agree with the comment about power and amp quality.... In order for them to work properly, the do require a good amp, proper placement (heard that before... LOL!!), and above all, the application for which they are being used. They have been in constant production since 1968, as in 42 years. Other than the Heritage series, that's getting up there....

That being said, and this being the Klipsch Forum, I have always suggested that before one makes a "decision" regarding the 901's and their ability to make coherent noise, one has to actually listen to a pair, properly installed, using a good quality amplifier, etc. I would say that they are not as bad as we are often led to believe. They just have major weaknesses that, unless properly compensated for, they will sound like crap. And that, of course, is the problem. In most instances when we "encounter" the Nemesis 901, it is being used in a crappy room, improperly placed, crappy amp, etc. If one thinks about it subjectively, just imagine your Klipschorns not properly placed in the corners, and... with a $199 all plastic amp....

Does "significant" = "good"? That of course, is the right question... Good has to be measured subjectively, and we must also at least objectively reduce as many variables as we can. Good room, good amp, etc. Then stick pairs of whatever in there and go to town! The greatest problem we, as in most Forum members, have is the fact that our listening experience is limited to a relatively small number of speakers, only in certain environments, and only with certain types of amps and source material.

Others mention, in substance, "What about this speaker, or that speaker?" Oh well, it get's into significant, rather than the "best". What about the JBL Control Room/ Studio Monitors from the 70's, specifically the ubiquitous 4311/4312's? Not only were they in a "significant" number of recording studios, radio station control rooms, etc., they were also sold to the public, and really for the first time, placed a very high quality "monitor" speaker in the hands of the masses. That was significant, I would think. Others may qualify, etc.

Just some thoughts for Sunday morning.

[H]

[texas42]

My own list for the 12 most 'significant' speakers of all time. (in reverse order).

1. Klipschorn (nuff said, longest current production speaker and has stood the test of time.)

2. Quad ESL 57

3. Bose 901 (first to really consider making the room part of the equation due to reflections, etc)

4. Rogers LS3/5a (and variants). The essence of a mini-monitor since the early 70s and still in production (Proac, Spendor, Harbeth, etc)

5. Acoustic Research AR3a (first acoustic suspension speaker).

6. Infinity IRS (first true assault on the extreme 'high end' with double towers per side)

7. Original Advent

8. Ohm Type F (first truly omni-directional speaker and paved the way for the MBLs and others that followed)

9. B&W Matrix 801s (first to really consider cabinet influences/resonances and took steps to isolate them via their patented matrix enclosure)

10. Variants of the Lowther/Fostex high efficiency 'single driver' speakers. While I've never heard one I've fallen in love with, many will say the single driver approach is the most pure and refined with no crossovers.

11. Mirage M-1 (first to produce a true bi-polar tower which paved the way for Definitive Technology and others)

12. Carver Amazing Loudspeaker- A number of firsts and still one of the most impressive speakers I've heard at any price. Multiple open baffle woofers, 60" (almost full range) ribbon, etc. Truly a unique design that is standing the test of time.

There are probably others I might put on the list instead if I were to reflect longer and I might change the order some too after contemplation but this is pretty close. Would love to see some other members' lists.

[seti]

Klipschorn

Tannoy Westminster Royale

Altec Iconic

Quad ESL 57

Voigt 4ft Tractrix (ok cinema but ahead of his time)

B&W 801

Jensen Imperial

JBL Paragon

Lowther Acoustas

Altec 604

ElectroVoice Patrician II

[garyrc]

... I have always suggested that before one makes a "decision" regarding the 901's and their ability to make coherent noise, one has to actually listen to a pair, properly installed, using a good quality amplifier, etc. I would say that they are not as bad as we are often led to believe. They just have major weaknesses that, unless properly compensated for, they will sound like crap. And that, of course, is the problem. In most instances when we "encounter" the Nemesis 901, it is being used in a crappy room, improperly placed, crappy amp, etc. If one thinks about it subjectively, just imagine your Klipschorns not properly placed in the corners, and... with a $199 all plastic amp....

Examples:

1) BOSE 901 vs BOSE 901 vs My KLIPSCHORNS: A science professor I knew had Bose 901s in an "A" frame Great Room about 20 feet by 50 feet, hanging from the ceiling at an elevation of about 10 feet, at least 10 feet from any wall, driven by a 60 wt/ch Dyna solid state amp. I never could break it to him that they sounded terrible in nearly every way. I finally said, couldn't you use a little more than 60 watts in here? He answered that there was no need for more than about 30. Since it became apparent that this was part of his Doctrine, I let it go ..... V.S.... The same model BOSE 901 (the one that would have been purchased in 1972) at Alphonso's in Mendocino. His classical music store was actually smaller than the room of my scientist, and the 901s were about 2 to 3 feet from a wall. He started with a Phase Linear 700 amp (about 350 watts/ch, depending on how you measure it) and they sounded great! Over the 30 plus years I've known him, he made many amplifier changes, always adding power, and has gone from Lp to CD, etc. The last time I was there he had the 1,000 watts of McIntosh power I mentioned in a former post, and the BOSEs sounded better than ever! I usually buy several of his hard to find international CDs whenever I visit, after hearing them on his system, and my frustration is that I have hard time getting my Klipschorns to sound as ... well ... integrated as his BOSEs. Yes, I have clearer midrange, and better dynamics.

2) KLIPSCHORNS vs the same KLIPSCHORNS

a) In a store I love, their Klipschorns were tucked properly in corners in an about 20 x 35 foot room with a ~~ 9 foot ceiling, situated so you could not go to an extremely off axis listening position. They sounded great. Then they moved them twice. The first move was to a wall with a open doorwaybetween the Khorn. The door was probably closer than the recommended minimum 4 feet from one Klipschorn, and the wall making the corner on one side was only about 3 feet long. The room was "L" shaped except for the interruption of that short wall, and you could get way off axis. The K-horns sounded good, but not nearly as good as in the original room. The second move was into a very large room, tucked into good corners, with a very high ceiling. The Khorns sounded better than in room 2, but worse than in room 1, and the image seemed to be floating above the Khorns a bit. Go figure.

In our former home my Klipschorns sounded about as good as I've heard speakers sound ... after the move to our present home, first audition about 1 week after last hearing them for the last time at the old home, I immediately knew something was a little wrong. Yes, they sound pretty good, and gueats are impressed, but they don't have the integration or the bass response they used to have. We have been trying to get the old sound back ever since.

[jdm56]

I'd also put the Bose 901 on the list. I guess you'd have to define "significant".

Don't laugh! The introduction of the 901 was, afterall, the antithesis of "normal" speaker design, including horn loaded types. I've had several pairs (original Type I's from 1968, and a "test" pair of the new type VI's about 2 years ago). Whether we (as in the Forum members) like the 901 or not, it still stands to reason that is is one of the "significant" speakers designed and produced. And I will agree with the comment about power and amp quality.... In order for them to work properly, the do require a good amp, proper placement (heard that before... LOL!!), and above all, the application for which they are being used. They have been in constant production since 1968, as in 42 years. Other than the Heritage series, that's getting up there....

That being said, and this being the Klipsch Forum, I have always suggested that before one makes a "decision" regarding the 901's and their ability to make coherent noise, one has to actually listen to a pair, properly installed, using a good quality amplifier, etc. I would say that they are not as bad as we are often led to believe. They just have major weaknesses that, unless properly compensated for, they will sound like crap. And that, of course, is the problem. In most instances when we "encounter" the Nemesis 901, it is being used in a crappy room, improperly placed, crappy amp, etc. If one thinks about it subjectively, just imagine your Klipschorns not properly placed in the corners, and... with a $199 all plastic amp....

Just some thoughts for Sunday morning.

Check out my system profile![] I wasn't cutting down the 901. It's one of my favorite speakers ever, at any price. And I agree completely with your comments. It's all in the set-up. Same holds true for all speakers; horns, and any kind of di/bi/omni polar or "Direct/Reflecting" especially. Klipschorns are the best sounding speaker I've ever heard -in the right room and set-up.

So why don't I still have mine? I could not get them to sound like they should in our new house. In the old house they rocked: 12ft ceiling, lively, open ended room and good dimensions. In the new house they had to go in a closed, less lively room that had less favorable dimensions (16x18.5x8.75 feet). And they sucked -for $5800 speakers in 1999, anyway. In the same room, my 901's sound amazing. Best bass I've ever heard in my house. They sound like live music. Not like speakers. I'm absolutely in love all over again with them. Can't quit listening. And my new Adcom 5500 really lights their fire. I'd highly recommend the combination. But I digress...

I like Seti's choices. Here's my list, in no particular order

Klipschorn / AR1 / Quad ESL / ADS L200/300 / Bose 901 / Bose cubes / B&W 801 / Mirage M1 / JBL monitors / Ohm "F"

...that's 10. All lists should be ten! I can't think of anymore at the moment.[:S]

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