elitedemo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41644074/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001 this has been the most revealing video ive come acrossed so far showing the attacks on public service workers who have given away raises or have taken very small increases for many years to maintain benefits rather than lose them and now to have benefits attacked and even worse is trying to break union some insight from personal experience, after being furloughed for 2 years and going without raises and having health care and retirement increase each year, now they want to break unions and take away 4k or more annually in an instant is not a "modest request", public service workers have shared in the downturn of the economy already and being compared to private sector is apples to oranges, public service workers make less than the private sector and often times receive much lower wage increases to maintain benefits, not only were public service workers willing to take a concession on the previous voted budget that all republicans voted down but now it seems there agenda comes with an all out attack to break unionized labor not only did the gov. cherry pick which unions to attack (essentially splitting between them) they make comparisions to private and public workers to further create divisions in workers, the only thing the gov. has done is reduce business tax so that we take in less money as a state and now workers are suppose to foot that bill as well this seems less like balancing the budget (which could be done a million different ways) and more about attacking state workers and breaking unionized labor, everything that has been accomplished in the last 50+ years regarding employee rights could be unraveled by one loose cannon called walker my final thoughts, i am neither left nor right and would happily be in the middle but the extremists are endangering all honest workers, simply put i am pro workforce lets hear your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Mark makes salient points. One way or another the real power lies in with-holding services from the exploiters. Actions such as the governor's are what gave impetus and meaning to the union movement in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUBALES Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I always ask: How much will we need to loose, at what point will it be the thresh hold of the middle class working man/women to stop being trampled over. Union Labor is at the end of its rope and the effects on labor will be catastrophic. From the dismantling of project labor agreements to passing right to work bull sh.. laws, the government spits in the working mans face. Just how much does the middle class working man (soon to be lower) need to loose b4 we stand up and start kicking some ***. Do we need to loose more? how many family's need to suffer. Look at the facts people the rich are getting richer, every body is being left behind just to get enough bred crumbs not to shot someone. So what is it. How much more? Indiana rep. IBEW 481 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 US Inflation for 2011 is projected to be 6 to 8 percent. The average American is getting a 2% wage increase. I lost my pension fund in 1991. I have had to pay for part of my health insurance since 1989. Why should state workers get all of this for free when the rest of Americans do not get these sort of perks in todays economy? The state of WI is broke and we can not afford any new taxes. Something has to change. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 You've all raised some excellent points. As a proud member of IBEW Local 25, I'm saddened and hurt to see the road we're headed down. I hate to say this, but I feel it's too late to turn around now. The establishment has convinced the general population that unions are bad. And unions are the reason that jobs are sent overseas, and the reason your taxes are escalating out of control. With unions now representing only 12% of the workforce, it was easy for them to speak louder and be heard over the muted cries of the union labor. Unions helped shape this country, and while not every citizen is a member of a union, every citizen has reaped the rewards of unions fight, e.g. the 8 hour workday. To completely dismantle unions will only kill the watchdog that prevents the elimination of the 8 hour day, prevailing rates, etc. I'm most upset by the IBEW's decision to include a new division which will undermine my position and force me to work for almost half pay. My current pay barely keeps me fed and sheltered in an already too expense environment. The IBEW did this in an attempt to keep their funds solvent, as currently one member pays in for every one retired member drawing money out. Obviously, this could not continue. In an effort to keep market share and increase membership they have decided to lower themselves to the non-union level. For the past century, unions worked hard to raise the bar for everybody, union and non-union alike. I take tremendous pride when we, as a union contractor, take steps to ensure the safety and working conditions of ALL contractors on site. Without any union contractors on site, conditions will get worse and job accidents will increase. I should take this time to thank Wall Street for the last 6 years of spotty employment (that's a gross understatement). Thanks to the economy and my current job situation, I see no choice but to leave a job I loved. A job that my father had for nearly 50 years. That same job will no longer sustain me in the town I grew up in, not even with a second income. So what's to do? Exactly what Mark suggested. I'm getting off the grid. I've cut expenses way back. I sold any stereo equipment of high value before the economy completely tanked (thankfully). I currently rent, so no worries there. I drive a 14 year old car and it's getting along just fine. I've canceled magazine subscriptions, cut coupons, and hardly ever dine out. Better to stay in, eat healthy and enjoy a nice bottle of wine with the girlfriend. As Mark stated, when you stop yourself from being inundated with commercials on TV and print ads in glossy magazines, you suddenly realize how unnecessary those things are. I've no need for a BMW when I only sit in bumper to bumper traffic anyway. My economical stereo system puts the same smile on my face as the expensive one did. I've taken appreciation in the more important things in life, like love and happiness which is found from within. I hate to leave my hometown and the Island I grew up on, but we have lost the war and I'll soon move to a small town in Northern NJ to join my girlfriend and seek local employment. I don't feel like I've given up. I feel like I'm moving on. If there is one last fight in me, and the unions it should be this: an organized union march down to DC. All union labor should join forces now and show their unity and strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The state of WI is broke and we can not afford any new taxes. Something has to change. It seems like only the governor is saying the state is "broke." Others cite studies and numbers to say WI has a surplus. The governor is basically trying to shift income and wealth from the middle-class in the form of public employees, and transfer it to wealthy entrepreneurs by breaks and tax cuts. This reminds me of GWB's claims, when he was trying to privatize Social Security, that Social Security was "flat broke" and we had to shovel public funds into Wall Street. W. was lying then, and this sounds at least similar.The average American is getting a 2% wage increase. I lost my pension fund in 1991. I have had to pay for part of my health insurance since 1989. Why should state workers get all of this for free when the rest of Americans do not get these sort of perks in todays economy? Union benefits set a standard of wages and benefits following WW II, even though it appears to be declining. These carried over in similarity to private sector benefits. Your pension and health benefits reflected that IMO as long as they lasted.I see no reason to think that busting the last remaining union sector is going to help that. All evidence, such as the loss of retirement and health insurance, says the opposite. I suspect the answer is not to kick out another pillar of America's income and benefits structure, and trust in the wealth of hedge fund managers to bring people back to prosperity. Union beneficiaries should pay a substantial part of their health insurance (Federal employees do that, and I haven't heard of a lot of fuss about it). All private and public beneficiaries should IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I don't feel like I've given up. I feel like I'm moving on. Yes! Moving on to a more meaningful life I will predict. Working people have been stuffed into a tight box. On the left and right sides are pointless political parties. On the top is your employer capping you off, underneath are the minimum standards of consumption lifestyle making you continue to tread the wheel. Behind you are voracious debt collectors, and in front is a dream - an illusion of freedom. Don't just think out of the box, jump right out of it all together and free your self. That box was built for you intentionally. It is like a "juicer" - designed to extract from you every ounce of valuable life. Valuable for the people controlling the box. You are only in it by your choice. Unionism and respect for labor was destroyed by a 50 year public relations campaign to discredit the concept of "solidarity" in the USA. This concept is still alive in Europe, but died here. So, we pit worker A against Worker B, and create false points of antagonism. It is called divide and conquer. But all that is not meaningful now. The labor force has lost. You can either continue to weep and gnash your teeth and tread the mill for the winner, or you can say, "Ah Ha! I'll just jump right out of your phony box!" Wage Labor + Consumption does NOT = Happiness. There is another way. Hey Mark, ever read EF Schumacher? I'm specifically thinking of his Guide for the Perplexed and Small is Beautiful. Increasingly, I'm drawn to the concepts of localism.."villagism", if you will. There is a group of writers & philosophers on a similar track who call themselves the "Front Porch Republic" that my daughter follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifi jim Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hey Mark, ever read EF Schumacher? I'm specifically thinking of his Guide for the Perplexed and Small is Beautiful. Increasingly, I'm drawn to the concepts of localism.."villagism", if you will. There is a group of writers & philosophers on a similar track who call themselves the "Front Porch Republic" that my daughter follows. Some very interesting reading there, both EF Schumacher and the "Front Porch Republic", thanks for the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 " There was a 50 year war and your side lost. The winners are finance capital (e.g. the Banksters), and they are now calling all the shots. Labor is going to get rolled, and that doesn't simply mean union labor. In the short term - like 20 years - there is not going to be any turnaround. People aren't poor enough or hungry enough for an Egyptian-style revolution, and people aren't rich enough to buy government scumbags back from the Banksters. You lose. The very, very best strategy you can employ is to punt and get on defense. Getting on defense means getting free of the net, the grip, the hold, the entanglement in which you are (probably) enslaved. That means walking away from underwater mortgages just like Banksters walk away from bad debts when they feel like it. It means getting yourself out of debt to them. It means getting out of the official "job market" and making your own job in a more localized economy. It means spitting on their consumption demands: stop buying those $17 CDs, and $12 movie tickets, and $100 Nikes, and all the rest of the horsecrap and bullshite that keeps people forever in debt-servitude. Turn off your television set, stop voting, and disclaim allegiance to their claim over you. Stop being a dupe everytime someone waves a a flag past your face. Believe this or not, YOU hold ALL the cards and they hold none - if you really think very carefully about it. Take a long, slow walk around your neighborhood tomorrow. You won't find any Al Qaedas a caliphatin' around behind any bushes. You won't find any CIA assassins biting at your ankles, and you won't find any Banksters or consumer hustlers forcing you to buy their over-priced, poorly made Chinese crap. You'll discover real people. Good people. Honest people, and likeable people who are stuck just like you behind a nonsensical illusion being spun up over the televsion sets. Illusions of existential threats that don't really exist, and illusions of diseases for which you need a new $200 a month pill forever, and illusions of a better life if you just buy a new $50,000 car. F*ck 'em! Rediscover your real life. Banksters don't make money off each other, they make it off YOU. It's your choice to live your life out as a dupe and an idiot, or not. Yes, you will have to scale way way back. Nope, it is not easy. But, like I said, you lost the war. But it doesn't mean you have to rollover and take in the fanny. The way to fight back is leave them with no suckers to exploit. Let the Wall Street f*ckers eat each other's kids eventually, not yours. STOP PARTICIPATING. That's my thoughts. Good luck. " Atlas Shrugged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 yaeh pay teachers 100,000 dollers not enouh pay them 250,000 dollaers as long as vote Ibama in 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 massage for Ibama unon thugs: boooooooohoooooooo sob sob [:'(] Gov. Scott Walker to Obama: We’re Focused on Balancing Our Budget. It Would Be Wise for the President to Focus on Balancing His Budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's obvious this thread is political.I don't mind but we all know where it ends up.Some may think budgets aren't political and just math, lol.I have my opinion, you have yours, likely to be different...... To answer the ?.Yes, I'm watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatnoop Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 appears to be an attack on taxpayers to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was just cruising the Front Porch Republic blog site and one of the contributors is one Patrick J. Deneen. Any kin, Mark? My daughter knows him. The Front Porch guys are very into Wendell Berry. My daughter had me read his novel Hannah Coulter, a superb read that illumines his localist philosophy brilliantly without preaching. I need to look for more from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Unons bought and payed for Ibama 2008>>>>now he does their biddig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 AMY CALLING AMY [li] [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Pathetic....sad......we're rubber and you're SUPER glue, na na na na na na, how childish [<)]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSnyder Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 tipiccal of libberails >>>>> onley ONE side well-come or they cries Winsconsin Demms RAN AWAY from statehouse!!! Teachers CALL IN SICK ------- lieing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'm watching carefully. I have been a UAW member for 16 years now, and make a decent wage. I'm not going to get into any debate about union vs nonunion. I just want to say that I, too, have had enough of the whole consumerism lifestyle and have started my own scale back. I let my overpriced house go back to the bank and bought a much nicer bank owned home for one third the price. I have cut up all my credit cards. I am working on paying off all debts so I can be free and clear of any financial obligations to anyone else. I fear the day when the last stronghold the working class has (unions) collapses and we become a nation ruled by Corporate Greed, where laborors are considered nothing but an inconvenient necessity, a "lower class" of citizenry. That's my rant and I'm sticking with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 By far and away, the meaningul posts in here were not political at all. I think we've been doing quite well.[] Incidentally, my biggest inspiration for local, village thinking and living came from my 11 trips to East Africa. Most of my work there has been in one fairly remote Maasai village. Other than heavy-handed and worrisome meddling from the outside by the government, politics has little meaning there. In fact, global economics has little meaning there. They govern themselves and their "economics" is almost completely local. They live well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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