iRIDEWAKES Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Currently have a monster cable power center ht800, My rpw10 got fried shortly after a brownout and after recently replacing my AVR and Sub it has me wondering whether it's sufficient? Would like some opinions and suggestions. Thanks Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 how old is the ht800? reason being the MOV's that absorb surges have a memory, and over time, which repeated surge exposure, they loose their ability to provide protection. So in essence, and old over exposed surge protector will off no protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRIDEWAKES Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Almost 4 years old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRIDEWAKES Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think the panamax m4300 is going to work well for me, any suggestions otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'd recommend the Belkin PureAV PF60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjennings2510 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you have the funds I would recommend an APC AV unit with battery backup. Reason being it also offers surge protection, avr etc but if you happen to lose power completely the unit will keep chugging along or if a power condition such as a brownout happens the unit will keep on chugging as well. The monster units are supposed to cut power when events happen. I'd rather shut down my equipment the proper way. Nonetheless Panamax has battery units as well. I can say my APC units have saved my tvs and PS3 game saves more than once during storms when the power flickered or went out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Currently have a monster cable power center ht800, My rpw10 got fried shortly after a brownout and after ... Did you know speaker wire has polarity? Speaker wire was marked with one end for the amp; other end for speakers. If you reversed that wire, then sound was perverted. And so many said they could hear the difference. So Monster marked cables marked with polarity. $7 speaker wires sold for $70. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product at significantly higher profits. Your Monster protector is similar to one selling in a supermarket for $7. Or read Monster's spec numbers. You can post a number for each type of anomaly it protects from. And good luck. At best, Monster claims near zero protection. And that can be promoted as 100% protection in sales brochures. Protector too close to electronics and too far from earth ground can also make transient damage to electronics easier. Monster will forget to mention that. As will Panamax which is also selling a similar ineffective circuit. If it is called a surge protect*or*, then you know it is surge protect*ion*? Nonsense. A protector and protection are completely different items. Monster proves 100% protection by using word association. The two words sound alike. So that is proof they are same. A scam, easy to promote, when you do not even ask what a protector does. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for $25 or $60. Or Monster may sell it for $80 or $150. Monster did the same near zero protection that Monster said it will do. They know you never asked simple and damning questions such as, "How do it do protection?" In part because, well, how many others posted without asking those same questions? Hearsay and wild speculation rather than honesty and numbers is often repeated as fact. You have damage that honesty and numbers defined. So buy a Panamax that also claims near zero protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRIDEWAKES Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 So you obviously made a point to bash both companies "surge protection" products but you didn't make any kind of suggestion to any other product?! You can't be serious about the $3 dollar powerstrip crap? I realize Monster may be marked up for the name but even my HT800 offers something like $100,000 policy if I remember correctly, which I'm sure they wouldn't base off a $3 component. As far as Panamax goes my local go to spot for HT has a Panamax protecting their $50,000+ theater room. Also noticed you have posted 44 times and still have no system profile? Forum Troll?............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have been very happy with the following: Adcom ACE 615 Line Conditioner with ELS Technology Suggested Retail Price $629.00 Until recently, surge protection for all applications including home entertainment and computer systems has been plagued by low endurance, unpredictable performance and safety problems. The new Adcom ACE-615, with patented ILS™ (If Lightning Strikes) technology, now offer a uniquely effective solution that has earned the U.S. Government's highest ratings. In addition to the revolutionary ILS™ technology and its uniquely safe and effective handling of power line surges, the ACE-615 provides superior State-of-the-Art AC line enhancement by effectively filtering both types of noise interference (radio frequency and electromagnetic) without "choking" the full power line load necessary for dynamic amplifier performance. The filter response in the Normal Mode (between hot and neutral) is 6 dB @ 10kHz. The filtering effect increases as the frequency increases. This filtering very effectively deals with the kind of AC noise and “hash” generated by vacuum cleaners, compressors in refrigerators, etc. This filtering takes place prior to the surge suppression stage and dramatically enhances audio performance. The filter response in the Common Mode (between hot and neutral with respect to ground) is 6 dB @ 400kHz. Again, the filtering effect increases at higher frequencies. This filtering pertains primarily to Radio Frequency Interference (RFI). The ACE-615 also offers advanced coaxial cable protection for signals traveling the coax lines. When the IL™ series coax circuit is examined, its unique qualities become readily apparent. The coax circuit is completely isolated. Located as far away from the incoming AC signal as possible and incorporating precisely engineered utilization of isolation washers, the ACE-615 coax module prevents electrical coupling, RF coupling and ground loops resulting in the best possible video image without degradation from AC noise and distortion. The Adcom ACE-615 represents a completely new dimension in total surge suppression efficacy, coax protection, AC line enhancement and safety. They are also, like all our products, precision engineered and quality manufactured to deliver maximum performance, long lasting reliability and, of course, ultimate Adcom value. The Government’s Highest Rating... Having experienced a rash of very costly suppressor failures, the U.S. Government set about developing a powerline surge suppressor purchase specification that incorporates user requirements and classifies products for: Endurance (service lifespan) Performance (degree of protection provided) Mode of Operation (application) This specification is now available to everyone and the ILS™ technology utilized in Adcom’s ACE-615 was the first to receive the U.S. Government’s highest certification, independently verified by Underwriters Laboratories Inc.®: Grade A Endurance (1,000 surges; 6,000 volts; 3,000 amps per surge) Class 1 Performance (280 volts measured) Mode 1 Applications (no ground circuit contamination) No MOV-based Shunt-Mode suppressor has ever been able to meet all three of these standards. Although no longer made for the last year or so, you can purchase on Ebay or Audiogon used for about $250.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Westom i looked at your previous posts and you are obviously our power conditioner guru[8-)] I have a cheap surge protector and am considering upgrading. Post some pics of your guys protectors/conditioners and the reason you use them. I am sure alot of people have theirs just for peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've got my popcorn ready.[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Based on recommendations from forum members... I picked up the Furman Elite 20pfi. Can't say anything on performance (as it's been sitting in the box for several weeks now). However, the value to add to the post was that in my mind... it seemed logical to invest in this type of equipment as it should last "forever". The manual states that there is nothing in the unit that really degrades over time. If it provides cleaner current that will help other equipment (amps, etc) last longer... then it seems reasonable for this reason as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 You can't be serious about the $3 dollar powerstrip crap? I realize Monster may be marked up for the name but even my HT800 offers something like $100,000 policy if I remember correctly, which I'm sure they wouldn't base off a $3 component. As far as Panamax goes my local go to spot for HT has a Panamax protecting their $50,000+ theater room. Using your reasoning, GM products have the industry's best warranties. Therefore GM products are superior to Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai? Nonsense. Learn from free market trends. Best warranties are typically on worst products. Dead serious about a $3 power strip with ten cent parts. Compare spec numbers on a $7 supermarket protector with those from Monster. Neither manufacturer claims protection from destructive anomalies. If Monster could be effective, then you posted manufacturer specifications that say so. Posting personal accusations is a cheapshot attack. Not relevant. Stop that foolishness now. If a protector is effective, then you have spec numbers that say so. Or post numbers from those specs to learn what it really claims. Numbers and facts are relevant. Cheapshot denials - also called silly emotion - are neither relevant nor adult. Please learn how to stay logical. Read fine print in those warranties. Exemptions are numerous and changing so that a warranty need not be honored. They can replace a protector many times (not honor the warranty). And still reap obscene profits. Warranty exemptions: one power strip manufacturer said using a protector from any other company voids their warranty. Some newest exemptions demand each incoming wire be properly grounded. IOW without a 'whole house' protector, then that power strip warranty is voided. What did you need? One 'whole house' protector. A big buck warranty means specifications are ignored? But only if you want to be scammed. Being honest with yourself means you know a Monster protector absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Where does it say that? How it stop what three miles of sky could not? Good luck finding any answer. It is a profit center; not protection. Ineffective protectors were defined by their spec numbers and by damning questions. Again, "Protector too close to electronics and too far from earth ground can also make transient damage to electronics easier." Informed consumers spend about $1 per protected appliance for one 'whole house' protector. Earthed to even protect that Monster or Panamax protector. Then protection inside each appliance is not overwhelmed. That well proven solution is not too close to electronics and too far from earth ground. You had damage? That Monster would do what? Exactly what its numeric specs said it will do. Would you learn from over 100 years of well proven science? Or post nasty personal accusations? Learn from your mistake. Monster and Panamax only do what their spec numbers say. Sometimes, a plug-in protector even compromises superior protection inside the adjacent appliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have a cheap surge protector and am considering upgrading. Post some pics of your guys protectors/conditioners and the reason you use them. First, define which anomalies you want to eliminate. For example, a UPS in battery backup mode will output electricity so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. That same electricity is ideal power to all electronics. Because circuits (protection) already inside electronics are already that superior. Transients that cause damage - that overwhelm that internal protection - is not stopped by any power strip protectors. Again, the damning questions. How does that power strip absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? How does it stop what even three miles of sky could not? Any protector adjacent to appliances does not claim protection. Worse, it can sometimes make damage easier. Protection inside appliances is superior. Or are you replacing dimmer switches hourly or daily? Your concern is an event that occurs typically once every seven years. A number that can vary significantly even within the same town. A solution means you define where that energy dissipates. Once that energy is inside the building, then nothing - nada - zero - can stop or absorb that transient. Protection even 100 years ago was always about connecting that energy harmlessly outside the building. Either energy is inside hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Or that energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Once inside, nothing will stop that destructive hunt. The well proven solution also costs tens or 100 times less money. Fine print in some big buck warranties say no properly earthed 'whole house' protector means a claim is rejected. Just another reason for spending less on a well proven solution. What other anomaly would you solve? Harmonics? EMI/RFI/EMC? Power factor? Low voltage? Ground loops? Blackout? Most are already solved better inside a power supply. Others must be solved at the service entrance. A UPS only addresses one: provides temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. One solution that everyone needs is to properly earth one 'whole house' protector. A solution starts with products from more responsible companies that most any guy would know. Including Siemens, Square D, Intermatic, Leviton, General Electric, ABB, Keison, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). Neither Panamax nor Monster are on that list. BTW, pictures are useless. Nobody should care what it looks like. Everyone should always be concerned with facts and numbers. Electrical numbers such as manufacturer specs. Facts such as how it makes hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear. Above is about a surge protector. Power conditioner is (should be) another and completely different topic. Many power conditioners are nothing more than surge protectors selling for many $hundreds because its case looks more expensive and because it has a digital display. A relevant question starts by asking what anomaly should be eliminated. And asking for what is relevant – electrical facts and numbers. Above also only introduces the most critical component for transient protection. That should cause numerous questions. Because no protector – not one – does protection. Differences are major between protect*or* and protect*ion*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Say Whaaaaaaaaaaaat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRIDEWAKES Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 I think forum troll was a pretty good assumption after further review. The fact that you reply in a matter of fact manner does nothing but detour me from you opinion anyways. Don't be so sensitive, this forum is filled with grown men who love sports, music, movies etc. Not everyone has some higher education in this area and I don't care to be lectured by some self proclaimed genious. Moving on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I just ordered the APC J10 from Vanns. Unfortunately it is in silver while everything else in my setup is black, cannot beat the price though, check it out if looking for a conditioner. Note this model has battery back up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokarz Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 +1 for APC. i got the H10 about 2 years ago, still working great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I just ordered the APC J10 from Vanns. ... check it out if looking for a conditioner. Note this model has battery back up The output from this 120 volt APC "power conditioner" when in battery backup mode. 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. Power so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small motors and power strip protectors. Not harmful to electronics. So it is sold as a 'power conditioner' because it does power unconditioning. And connects appliances directly to AC mains - also no conditioning - otherwise. That APC has one useful function. Temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. Because power conditioning is standard in all appliances, then crappiest power from a UPS is 'cleaned' by superior circuits standard in all electronics. It is not a conditioner. It is only a battery backup power source. 'Diritiest' power is created by that when in battery backup mode, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I use two of these... extremely reliable, and most likely helped to save my rack full of gear from a whole-house power surge a few years ago when the weather head was struck by half a tree during an ice storm... http://www.ecoustics.com/htr/reviews/1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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