For those of you who have heard both Bob's crossovers and ALK's.....

[Adoremusic]

Which ones do you prefer for your khorns and why? Also, what kind are you using as they both offer up an assortment?

[Guest " "]

just as an fyi, folks that didn't like one or the other, or couldn't tell a difference, will tend not to post, due to peer pressure. There's a lot of crossover swapping and replacing going on horizontally, which basically has more to do with personal preference than absolute qualitative merits.

[Marvel]

You think?...[:^)]

Since I finally got my LS hooked back up, the DHA2s sound really good. In a couple more days, I'll swap in the AAs with the battery bias...

I'll let everyone know MY perception.

Bruce

[Audible Nectar]

I prefer the simple/basic networks for my use (A/AA/B/E) built with the best available parts. They have a very close/immediate sound that I really like, and they work great for people who don't turn up the system to volume level extremes. I take my speaker systems to the mid 90s db area in a 15 x 20 room and they work extremely well. If I were in a larger room, or used a bit more power, then an ALK network (or similar hybrid) might be in order.

So in my Belles, I use a AA network built with V-Cap OIMP caps (this was about $600), which is a "best parts" version of what Bob is doing. Bob's AA does very well for about 40% of that cost, and will get you 85-90% of the performance. It's a highly recommended value solution for anyone still running 30+ year old cans in original Heritage.

I am one of those "cap and tube rollers/tweakers" who likes simplest, high quality parts builds in gears/networks, so that may shed a bit of light on my "angle". There's merit to most ALL of the offered/discussed networks here, it's a matter of taste and use that will determine your best solution. It's a broader area than most realize, and an area worth investigating.

BTW - no "peer pressure" element here. I like what I like and say so without any personal axes. It's never personal when it comes to gear choices. It's funny because I'm about as "polar opposite" WRT non-audio subjects when it comes to the people I have had do my preferred builds, but we agree on AUDIO solutions and basic business practices so we have all the meeting of the minds as necessary. Even with the offered solutions I did not choose, they are good people too and don't take the fact you chose otherwise personally either. This really is a "taste and use" kind of subject with solutions that present advantages and drawbacks, so there isn't a single "one size fits all" answer here.

One thing that might help some is a bit from the original poster on what type of gear, room, and listening volume/habits/tastes/preferences apply, which would spark a bit more directed recommendation. Someone who likes SET amps playing at modest volumes would LOVE my V-Cap build, OTOH if you are running those KHorns on a 400 WPC solid state amp in a big room and plan to use that power, an extreme slope build from Al might be in order. And of course, varied solutions for use/tastes in between...

[Groomlakearea51]

The old heavily discussed question.... A vs AA vs A/4500 vs ALK's vs etc.

It's an "ear thing". My original K'horns in son's room have rebuilt AA's. Man cave completely rebuilt K'horns have A/4500's. MBR Khorns have A/4500's. LS's have AA's, Belles have A/4500's. Cornwalls all retain their Bx configuration, and all the Heresy-I's use E/4500's, the H-III conversion uses H-III crossover.

Probably the reason I like the 4500 type is that most of the speakers all have CT-125's as I just preferred them over the K-77's. The 4500 takes advantage of that particular HF driver's freq response.

Another factor probably relates to how loud I listen to music. I simply listen to music at low volume levels, usually not louder than about 85dB, and then not for more than about an hour or two.

Then there's the rooms..... Man cave (The infamous Wall of Voodoo) is almost like a small "near field" studio. 16.5' x 11.7" with 10' to 7' slope ceiling towards the long wall. K'horns and Heresy's as a "center" (JBL's in there on the K'horns, when I want some additional mid range, etc.). The side and back walls are "treated" with assymetric shelving (diffusion and avsorption), and center area has absorption panels. Effect is nice, and the "noise floor" is really, really low. Extremely quiet, not dead, but really easy to isolate sound source. In this case, very low volume levels sound really, really good. Can get loud, but don't need to. The 4500's are noticeably better (for me) than the A's, AA's, etc.

Son's room is NOT for critical listening..... My original K'horns in the corners with my original H-I's on top. But then again he's 12 years old and his idea of good sound is the sound track on the xBox game, LOL!!!. Interestingly, he does not play the speakers very loudly. Loud enough for the effects, etc, but when I'm around the corner and listening to CNN, etc., I really don't notice it that much. AA's in the K'horns. I did replace the K-33's with CW-1526's (old K-33'swere shot) and K-77 diaphragms obtained from Klipsch several years ago when I decided to "maintenance" them.

The living room is 2 pairs of Cornwalls and a pair of Belles. Only used as a a HT system with the big screen TV. Sounds great! All CT-125's, K-55's, K-33's and stock but recapped B's on the CW's. Belles have A/4500's, but only temporary until I finish re-capping the original AA's. What's different is that this room is quite large (compared to the rest of the home. Vaulted ceiling, false wall in the center between the room and the kitchen/ dining room, so the acoustics will never be, shall we say, "good". The furniture breaks up the reflections, and the side and back wall bookshelves help with diffusion and bad reflection issues. Since it's not really for critical listening, but functions as a living room (as we live in it... alot..), both I and other forum members who have visited cannot really tell the difference between any crossovers. The greatest thing accomplished is that no matter where you sit or stand, the sound is pretty much equal.

Same thing with the MBR. My wife's K'horns are CT-125's with A/4500's, the LS's (centers) are recapped AA's, and the 4312's on top of the K'horns add some more "voicing" midrange. My wife likes to watch the "Soap" channel in there alot, and in the late evenings, I'll head in there and watch a netflix movie or something along those lines while I fall asleep (I'm retired and can do such decadent things...)

I've heard the ALk's and the ES's, and they sound really good. I borrowed a pair of the ES's a couple years ago. They shine at volume levels that would kill me after about an hour. Maybe getting old, by my hearing is extremely sensitive. But when I turn things down to the levels that I like, the difference is not quite apparent to make enough difference to warrant the changes.

If..... I had spare cash.... and wanted to change everything on the K'horns, LS's, and Belles, I would spring the bucks for Al's ES series. But if I had that type of spare change laying around, I'd probably "garage sale" everything and buy all brand new K'horns for the two BR's, new LS's for the LR and BR centers, new CW's for the living room, and three pairs of H-III's for "stackers" in those rooms.

The wall of voodoo? Full Jube's but with a passive three way crossed where I want the points, built by Dean, Bob, or Al, etc.

But the lottery still has not produced the desired results!!

[H]

[Adoremusic]

Thanks for the responses thus far. I recently purchased a combination gentle/extreme slope crossover network from Al and am currenly not overly impressed. However, I do agree that at louder levels they are more relaxed and less blary but overall I still prefer my a/4500's from Bob. I'm currently using a Marantz 2245 to drive them but in the near future I will be receiving a rebuilt HH Scott 299(a). Obviously it's all going to depend on my mood and how loud I want it.

[sheltie dave]

Adore, as you have discovered folks who are seeking clarity and/or volume seem to gravitate to the ALKs, while those who like their listening done at the lower end of the dB scale like to upgrade their existing factory crossovers. The differing crossovers bring different attributes to the table. There is no right/wrong answers to this question - is is more a question of how you want to utilize your speakers, and what will make your listening experiences most enjoyable.

In this framework there is no wrong crossover, just which will be the most "right" for your usage.

[jhoak]

I can't speak for KHorns. I have La Scalas.

In the time I've owned my La Scalas I've run the original AL networks (BLECH), a pair of Type-As, a pair of A/4500s, a pair of DHA, a pair of ALK-Jrs, and pair of AP12/500 & AP15/6000s. Of them the ALK-Jrs are my favorite. The A/4500s are a very close second.

My room is 16' x 32' with a sloped ceiling that goes from 10' at the front up to 19.5' at the peak and then back down to 8' at the back. There are absorbtive panels on the walls behind the LS and on the opposite wall. The room tends to be pretty reflective but I have it fairly well treated to tame it down. I like it a little "lively" and I feel like I'm pretty close to what I like treatment wise. I tend to listen at pretty high volumes from time to time. That is where the ALK-Jrs shine in my system. If I always kept the volume down to "background" levels I'm sure that I would probably be very happy with the A/4500s.

I ended up selling the AP12/AP15 combo because I didn't feel that they added enough over the ALK-Jrs to justify what I had spent on them. Were they better? Well... maybe... a little but very little. I've never heard any of the ES line of networks. Perhaps if the Gods smile on me and I pick 6 good numbers one week I'll give a set a try.

They're all VERY good (well except the AL) and I'm sure that I could happily live with any of them. In MY room with MY equipment to MY ears the ALK-Jrs are the ticket. I was told by one of the designers of the ALK-Jr that it represents 95% of what the "Universal" crossover offers sound wise.

One of the really great things about balancing networks and this forum in particular is that if you want you can give just about anything a try. Watch the Garage Sale section and pick up a pair of whatever pre-owned. If you don't like them you can flip them for most if not all of what you have in them.

[Guest " "]

I use a AA network built with V-Cap OIMP caps

yes, I can imagine...I have been meaning to do battery biased v-caps and dumping the T-2A and clones for a wide band autoformer. Got the parts all rounded up, just need to get to it.

[Gilbert]

Which ones do you prefer for your khorns and why? Also, what kind are you using as they both offer up an assortment?

I've not heard Bob's xover, but I am very familiar with ALK's type B replacement. I love the ALK's and their improved mid-range.

[Gilbert]

just as an fyi, folks that didn't like one or the other, or couldn't tell a difference, will tend not to post, due to peer pressure. There's a lot of crossover swapping and replacing going on horizontally, which basically has more to do with personal preference than absolute qualitative merits.

BINGO!!!!

[pocket.change]

Both XOs do a very good job. I've keep the Universals and haven't looked back. The driver package I'm using blends better with the ALK's . I've also replaced drivers with Bob's offering and enjoyed the change

(it's simply a better design in spite of their very reasonable price tag).

Next change I make will be adding a zipper so's I can change things more easily.