Moderators dtel Posted August 30, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2011 So if I set my rf7's to large and 60hz xover on my receiver they will slam above that set amount and let the sub do the rest below that frequency? So I would not have to worry about running into that too low frequency problem.Correct? Yes that's the idea. But I would try it and compare to how you have it now and see what sounds best to you, like many other settings whatever sounds best to you, is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 There is no low freq problem, speakers were designed to output sound, if they don't get bigger ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 So if I set my rf7's to large and 60hz xover on my receiver they will slam above that set amount and let the sub do the rest below that frequency? So I would not have to worry about running into that too low frequency problem.Correct? Presuming you mean you set your RF-7s to small and a 60hz xover on your receiver, that is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 There is no low freq problem, speakers were designed to output sound, if they don't get bigger ones. If you've got a strong enough LF transient, it will make noise, just not one you want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 So if I set my rf7's to large and 60hz xover on my receiver they will slam above that set amount and let the sub do the rest below that frequency? So I would not have to worry about running into that too low frequency problem.Correct? Presuming you mean you set your RF-7s to small and a 60hz xover on your receiver, that is correct. I took the liberty of bolding the key word -- small -- in StephenM's response above. I think there was some confusion earlier. If you suspect they might fall prey to outrageous movie bass, set all speakers except the sub to small, then set the crossover to where it sounds best. That is what I finally decided to do after living at high risk for a while, running my Klipschorns at large. The reason they will be set to small hereafter is that movie people (in the last few years) have been unrestrained in the bass department. Speakers do blow out. I blew out a set of Brand X with the thunder storm in The Witches of Eastwick; a very reputable dealer blew out a Klipschorn woofer on Thriller, back when it first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2011 Speakers do blow out. I blew out a set of Brand X with the thunder storm in The Witches of Eastwick; a very reputable dealer blew out a Klipschorn woofer on Thriller, back when it first came out. But was it from volume abuse on normal low's or the frequencies below what the speaker can reproduce ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Something to keep in mind: when you drop an octave in frequency, woofer excursion generally* quadruples. When you increase output by 6dB, woofer excursion doubles. *Ports change things a bit, although below the tuning frequency, where the woofer is unloaded, over excursion becomes a major issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Speakers do blow out. I blew out a set of Brand X with the thunder storm in The Witches of Eastwick; a very reputable dealer blew out a Klipschorn woofer on Thriller, back when it first came out. But was it from volume abuse on normal low's or the frequencies below what the speaker can reproduce ? The destructive force in the Eastwick case was from frequencies below what that mid-fi woofer could take -- the volume (SPL) was normal and the dialog was at the level of normal speech. I doubt very much if the amplifier was clipping, because the tweeters were not blown or damaged.I don't know about Thriller -- I wasn't there -- but from what the dealer said Ithink an employee cranked up the volume, and turned the bass control way up. When the lowest bass is not there in the recording, the SPL can be a lot higher. We were working on a program once that used a sound effects record of an atom bomb blast. The Lp no doubt had some low bass roll-off, and the Crown recorder had some at 15 i.p.s.. The playback SPL was huge, and the floor shook like the theater did for Earthquake, but there was probably little there under 30-40 Hz, so the Khorns survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 *Ports change things a bit, although below the tuning frequency, where the woofer is unloaded, over excursion becomes a major issue. I think this is true with bass horns, also. PWK used to claim that in a Khorn the woofer did not have to move farther back and forth at 40 Hz than it did at some higher frequency (maybe 100 Hz?) I don't know what happens below the horn loaded speaker's stated range ... does it unload and go wild? That would be good to know? How about with my RSW15? That sub has a lot of pumping motion, period. If the movie freaks send through an 8HZ signal at high volume, will the RSW15, which is speced down to 19Hz, pop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 does it unload and go wild? That would be good to know? Sounds like the folded horn is acting as a ported enclosure in that case, although it would take someone with a bit more knowledge to shed light on it. Of course, I'd also be curious to know if it does have any sort of protection in the XO against such issues. My guess is that it probably does. How about with my RSW15? That sub has a lot of pumping motion, period. If the movie freaks send through an 8HZ signal at high volume, will the RSW15, which is speced down to 19Hz, pop? Passive radiators act in a similar manner to ports. However, I'd be willing to wager that the RSW (like most subs that I know of) have a limiter/compressor/infrasonic filter to keep it out of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I'll be driving to Hope tomorrow to pick up my rf7ii (only a 30 min drive) and I am curious if I should set them to small or large on my reciever. I have rf7ii as mains rc 64ii center and rf52ii as rears. Seems a *** shame to set them all to small and just use my sub. What do y'all think? While recalibrating 'Audyssey' that I lost during power outage, came across this from Audyssey! Long story short, it seems that everytime, when we loss power, it resets to 'OFF' setting but typically I could revert to saved Audyssey setting. This time, the receiver had lost the saved Audyssey settings!!! [+o(] Recalibrated...Came acroos 'Small versus Large' article at 'Innovation Blog' from Audyssey... http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippyman Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I recently setup my 7.2 system and after running Audyssey it set my RF7-II's to Large and 40HZ. They sound amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'll be driving to Hope tomorrow to pick up my rf7ii (only a 30 min drive) and I am curious if I should set them to small or large on my reciever. I have rf7ii as mains rc 64ii center and rf52ii as rears. Seems a *** shame to set them all to small and just use my sub. What do y'all think? Yor are one lucky soul to pick them up your selves! It's like going to Munich to get BMW or Ingolstadt for Audi or Wolfsburg for VW.... Enjoy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 yeah...It does with Audyssey...Without the Audyssey, it there is a echo in our set up...Good to know that you like it as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I recently setup my 7.2 system and after running Audyssey it set my RF7-II's to Large and 40HZ. They sound amazing! It can't set them to Large and give a crossover unless you went back and changed them to Small,,,,Large means no crossover and the speaker is not sending anything to the sub ( Unless you have LFE + mains and then you may want to change it), Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippyman Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 It can't set them to Large and give a crossover unless you went back and changed them to Small,,,,Large means no crossover and the speaker is not sending anything to the sub ( Unless you have LFE + mains and then you may want to change it), Yeh I just realized this after I typed it. Read up on Audyssey's site and smacked myself. Re-running it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I recently setup my 7.2 system and after running Audyssey it set my RF7-II's to Large and 40HZ. They sound amazing! I'm not sure whether your "it" refers to "my system" or "Audyssey" .... but ... on their website (Q & A) Audyssey repeatedly says that Audyssey does not set "LARGE" or "SMALL," but the AVR or Preamp/Processor does, and often sets them wrong, in Audyssey's opinion. A similar opinion was expressed in the Home Theater review of a Marantz Pre/Pro. In general, Audyssey recommends using SMALL, with a crossover of 80Hz (so does THX). I know this may be painful to those of us who like the clean bass below 80 Hz that our fronts provide, and dislike the less clean response of the sub between, say, 40 and 80, but a potentiial advantage of the 80HZ is that there are many more correction points in that range when you are using the subwoofer output in that frequency band. I intend to try it both ways. Some AVRs or Pre/Prosallow you to make a completely independent setting called LPF for the LFE signal only. Audyssey recommends setting that one to 120 Hz (while leaving the other one at 80 Hz). Here's how that works: a) there is no LFE track on ordinary music disks -- it is a special track, mostly for effects, on movies, and perhaps other media that use a ".1" ... so for music CDs, the music is directed to your subwoofer below 80 Hz. With movies that are 5.1 or greater, two different things happen. Generlly speaking the music from the soundtrack orchestra goes to your fronts (and sometimes to your surrounds) above 80 Hz, and to your sub below 80. At the same time, effects below 120 Hz on the special LFE track on many movies -- like the low part of thunderclaps and explosions -- go directly to your sub. Chris (the co-founder of Audyssey, its technicl director, and the head of the Immersive Audio Lab @ USC -- see the New York Times for Sept 5th) said that he feels that manufacturers should not have provided a way to set the LPF for LFE to lower than 120 Hz, but owners of such equipment should adjust theirs fro 120. Chris seems to be quite willing to answer questions sent to him throught the website. He told me there would be nothing wrong with experimenting by setting my L & R (Klipschorns) to a crossover lower than 80 Hz (while set on SMALL), and letting my ears be the judge, knowing that there would be fewer speaker and room correction points available down there than there would be if I crossed over at 80 .... so we shall see. It might not be too bad losing the clean bass below 80; my old JBLs mains had very little below 80, but they still sounded like they had strong bass, thanks to a few peaks above. If your AVR or Pre/Pro has frequency response sliders, and you re-set them after Audyssey runs (to EQ for one of those poorly balanced disks) you will LOSE the Audyssey settings and benefits. Reportedly, a few AVR or Pre/Pros will allow you to use rotary tone controls to make final program EQ, but I don't know which ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I recently setup my 7.2 system and after running Audyssey it set my RF7-II's to Large and 40HZ. They sound amazing! Chris seems to be quite willing to answer questions sent to him throught the website. He told me there would be nothing wrong with experimenting by setting my L & R (Klipschorns) to a crossover lower than 80 Hz (while set on SMALL), I can't imagine him saying anything different than what we've said here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pite Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I think, it's good to understand how Audyssey, Audyssey XT, and Audyssey XT 32 works and then use it to your best for one's setup, room,, enviornment. I typically have used both Small and/or Large settings alongwith sub-woofer to experiment with crossover frequency for Fronts, Center, Surrounds and see what sounds best. Obviously, litmus test is one's personal audio/hearing preference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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