Mallette Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Not Edison this time around... Got that, Bruce. Point I was making was you've got one guy who has basically simply provided a "proof of performance" on a concept. He's done enough to prove that it works, and there is probably little other than an awful lot of digital engineers working out various algorithms to rule out all but the music. That is pretty much what happened with Edison's first demo, but I don't think it will take 75 years to work this one out if somebody gets on the problem. The Irene project is also quite interesting and certainly achievable. However, niether of the above may be the "right" way to touchlessly play LPs. One is driven by one guy's curiosity, and the other is government...which may do well but quite often doesn't apply Occam's Razor to a problem. Watching both will be fun... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Devil Tarheel Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 This is a very interesting philosophical question. But beware. Do you remember the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? Perhaps the element added to the sound recording by the unintended random vibrations of the stylus during the recording process may only be recovered by the unintended random vibrations of the stylus during playback, and lost in a clean, touch-less method. "it was that unknown impurity which lent efficacy to the draught" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Aw shucks, just go out and buy one of those $30,000 turntables, which will probably cost less, look prettier, and work better without making your head hurt in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I wonder what the warranty is on that $30,000.00 turntable, 1 year? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I wonder what the warranty is on that $30,000.00 turntable, 1 year? JJK 90 days now times have changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Bottom notch and groove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwingylee Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 http://hometheaterreview.com/the-finial-laser-turntable-reviewed/ The Finial Laser turntable..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 This is a very interesting philosophical question. But beware. Do you remember the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? Perhaps the element added to the sound recording by the unintended random vibrations of the stylus during the recording process may only be recovered by the unintended random vibrations of the stylus during playback, and lost in a clean, touch-less method. "it was that unknown impurity which lent efficacy to the draught" A pint of unknown impurity please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I still think the idea has merit. Lots of reasons to have one. There are plenty of LPs that it would be nice to play without causing more wear on the vinyl. This reminds me of a post by Allan Songer regarding wear on an lp. The gist of it was that with a correctly set up analog deck of any vintage that one could not possibly wear it out in one's lifetime. Extending this thought, and given the parameters, is any additional incremental wear worthy of the hassle and expense with the elp or the finial? Or of any other effort that is even less expensive? Occam's razor comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Years ago I read an article on a scientist who measured what happened to a record groove after one play (forgot the pressure). The needle spreads the groove outward and it takes 20 minutes for it to restore itself to within 98%. He recommended that you wait 20 minutes before you replay the same record. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 The gist of it was that with a correctly set up analog deck of any vintage that one could not possibly wear it out in one's lifetime. You aren't thinking about the inverse. You can audibly damage it in ONE play with a top of the line TT, cart, and arm with any number of issues that WILL occur at some point to even the most anal audiophile. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Arrghhh! I'm guilty of optimism... JJ, I wait until the next day to replay, I think that idea came from Mofi in their marketing which suggests their vinyl doesn't need as long to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 Years ago I read an article on a scientist who measured what happened to a record groove after one play (forgot the pressure). The needle spreads the groove outward and it takes 20 minutes for it to restore itself to within 98%. He recommended that you wait 20 minutes before you replay the same record. JJK I suspect he was being WAY conservative. At these scales cooling should happen very rapidly. Of course, if he quantifed this I can't really argue. OTOH, I am not seeing anything in that study as to what effect this had on the modulations of the groove. My ears say little or none. It DOES make me wonder if an LP can become "acclimated" to a given stylus and perhaps sound better for it with that stylus. Maybe not a great analogy, but sort of like one's shoes adapting to one's foot. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 If the shoe fits, wear it. Or was it if the shoe doesn't fit you must acquit? Or was it if Cinderella's shoe fits, take it back off, and the rest of her clothes. Where is that professor of history that did the Connections show when we need him? I'll still wait a day before replaying a standard lp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I play more than once a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Here's a thought for the day.... There's the old premise that different is always better, right? Could the attraction to vinyl be that it sounds just a little bit different everytime it's played? There's also the effect that if something changes very slowly, and you're perceiving it the whole time while it is changing, that you don't notice that it changed. I think one of my favorite examples is how you can have the lights slowly increasing during a church sermon to help keep people more awake - crazy thing is, nobody notices it if it is slow enough. I would think most audiophiles are always present when their vinyl is being played, so if it changed slowly, I wonder what the odds of noticing it might be. Maybe if someone gets around to building a good optical reader we could start quantifying those differences - if they exist. I dunno, just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The record was inferior to the master tape running at 30inches per second but the record took up much less space and the heads on your tape machine needed endless cleaning as the tape disintegrated leaving debris all over them. The tape also suffered print through from adjacent layers if you pushed the 0db a bit to much and you could hear this as a ghostly echo between tracks. Just as it is to play an instrument, it was an art to mix a master tape that could be cut effectively and not send the lathe into a nervous breakdown with phase issues, scopes were used to reveal phase issues. Then with a suitable master tape, cutting the lacquers on the lathe was another skilled task. Now anyone can make a CD on there computer and that's why there is so much crap available now days.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Marvel pointed out a great project "Digital Needle" but I like this web site better, it has quite listenable downloads: http://www.s3.kth.se/signal/edu/projekt/students/03/lightblue/index.html an MP3 made from a visual scan: http://www.s3.kth.se/signal/edu/projekt/students/03/lightblue/mp3/rock_05.mp3 and laslty for David, this PDF has the algoritims, etc. for deriving and filtering sound from a visual scan. interesting, if complicated, stuff. http://www.s3.kth.se/signal/edu/projekt/students/03/lightblue/pdf/DOC_final_report_v01.pdf Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks Tony! [Y] They reference the other link I had, but this gives more complete information when combined with their project. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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