rwjr Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have had them driven by a Sherbourn 5-5210A for several months. Not wanting to run the chance of clipping the amp, I had them bridged. The Sherbourn manual explicitly warns against bridging speakers that are less than 8 ohms. RF83s are "8-ohm compatible" but dip to much lower impedance during operation. Did I mess up by bridging them? Did this happen because they were bridged and drew too much current or just because they were played too loud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Can't see your pics. Try this. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/146759.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 You had the amp bridged? Post makes it sound like you are talking about the speaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Let's play "guess the pic". I'm guessing pics of fried voice coils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 not much info to go on here so lets generalize a little. Most amps will about double their output when bridged so you have lots of power.You have pretty efficient speakers such that its not likely you are listening at more than ten watts so average playing loud (by most standards). So I dont think you clipped the amp. Little amps clipping are what normally take out speakers. So you were likely playing a lot louder than you thought any how your speakers did not like it. Some folks are conditioned to associate loud levels with distortion which is common to hear in average systems so if you are in that boat and you turned things up till they sounded loud (distorted) your speakers just melted under the stress of way to much power. Expensive lesson but now you know what too loud sounds like and what a not happy speaker sounds like. So you learned a lesson. I don`t think there is a serious audiophile out there who is not a member of this club. Fix your speakers and sell them and get bigger ones which can play louder. You have for what ever reason maxed out one set of speakers so replace them with something that you won`t or can`t max out. Cornwal KLF 30 or La Scalla come to mind. If you like the two way RF sound then CF3 or 4 or RF7 will do the trick. Check to see if the amp is fine as in smells normal has no blown fuses and still works running other speakers. If so just get a bigger set of speakers. Besides they will make you feel better. Khorns often pop up in the 1 - 1.5K range and that`s likely the last speaker you will ever buy. Bonus with Khorns is that thieves never take them and you never have to worry about drunk friends kicking in the woofers at your parties. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjr Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Can't see your pics. Try this. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/146759.aspx Thanks! I tried linking them instead of uploading. First post updated. Here's the other one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjr Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 You have pretty efficient speakers such that its not likely you are listening at more than ten watts so average playing loud (by most standards). So I dont think you clipped the amp. ............Cornwal KLF 30 or La Scalla come to mind. .................... Check to see if the amp is fine as in smells normal has no blown fuses and still works running other speakers. I'd say I was WAY above average loud. Not to the point of distortion, but definitely VERY loud. I don't think the amp clipped. It was, however very hot to the touch after this happened (reasonably so) but did not smell like it fried. I have temporarily connected (NOT bridged) an extra pair of 82s I have lying around. Man, they suck compared to the 83s. As far as bigger speakers, the 83s can play louder according to the specs. It's just that the Heritage speakers take less power for a given dB. I play them very loud because they are in my music room (supposed to be a formal dining room) and I use them to listen all over the house. I also have an 83-based surround system in the living room (driven by a B&K amp), but I'm limited by the reference level calibration and can't really rock out with the HT setup like I want. That's the reason for the second set of 83s driven by their own amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorm Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Given the experience with another member, good luck with finding replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted October 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2011 I play them very loud because they are in my music room (supposed to be a formal dining room) and I use them to listen all over the house. The only good reason to play that loud [Y] You need bigger speakers.....yes I said it. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It's just that the Heritage speakers take less power for a given dB. Not 100% sure what you are saying here. Higher efficiency is a very good thing.Every time you add 3db to the efficiency of your speakers its as if your amp just got twice as big. Seems that you do indeed need a bigger speaker and higher efficiency would help. Cornwall KLF 30 or RF7 would permit you to play loud enough to hear from anywhere in the house, La Scalla`s would let you listen from outside no worries of blowing things up. That said if you want you can blow up anything. From your picture it would seem that you did not have a melt down but mechanical stress to the driver. Are these brand new speakers and you the first owner or were they pre owned? If pre owned then it would seem they had a rough life prior to you. If you have warranty use it if not try to find a new woofer if you cannot find one part them out and move on. You could alsoo consider useing the remaining RF83 of the pair as a centre channel for a perfect match and much more jam out of your HT. One thing for sure is that you need bigger speakers. Might be a plan to also consider a quality pair of subs to go along with the bigger speakers. Bigger speakers are always better. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Well Guy......expericence, comes as at a price.....or as Jackson Browne says.....the trash man comes tomorrow (The Late Show). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Just saw the second picture man that looks chemically induced if you ask me. So much for keeping one for a centre channel unless you still have two working drivers left but it does not look too good on that front but check to see. Metal can flex but it wont stand bending, you don`t see this kind of thing with a paper cone though you can drive a paper woofer hard enough to rip the coil from the cone or punch it through butt that`s rare. There is of course the option of multi room speakers to spread the load. Did I mention that you need bigger speakers? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjr Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 What I mean about the Heritage line is that they have higher sensitivity than the 83s, but lower power handling. Based upon sensitivuty vs. power rating, the 83s can still go louder than any of the Heritage line. Don't get me wrong, I bet the Heritage speakers SOUND better. I've never had the opportunity to hear any. I know, because they have higher sensitivity they dont require as much power for a given SPL. Doesn't change the fact that they handle less total power. I may need to go with PA speakers. Or maybe some JTRs. They have some attractive speakers. I just worry something else won't sound as good. I think the 82s have the same drivers, don't they?. I could always use them for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think your whole direction is wrong, if you whole house audio, you should be working with zones. What size house are you talking about, and how many floors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I have a 2400 sq. ft. home(not big, not tiny) with minimum 10ft ceilings. I can play my RF-63's in my family room and clearly hear and enjoy them all over the house at reasonable volumes(of course when no one else is home). You must be shooting for 90dB+ levels at the furthest room away to move those woofers in a way that resulted in that tangled mess. I think your problem is two-fold, too loud and too much current from your bridged Sherbourn. A true 200w/channel@8ohms quality amp(like your Sherbourn) will play cleanly and loud enough to power your RF-83's to crazy volumes without clipping unless you want it ear bleeding all over the house. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Do you know how many watts you were running to these speakers? I really don't understand this belief that Klipsch speakers need 500 watts to make em' sing.PWK said the world needs a good 5 watt amp, not 500 watts.That is so irresponsible there is no other outcome possible.The 200 watts that amp produces normally was MORE than enough to break something.I'm sorry but you really ask for it and got it. Maybe people will think twice before saying you need 3 or 500 watts before your Klipsch speakers really blossom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 What I mean about the Heritage line is that they have higher sensitivity than the 83s, but lower power handling. Based upon sensitivuty vs. power rating, the 83s can still go louder than any of the Heritage line. Don't get me wrong, I bet the Heritage speakers SOUND better. I've never had the opportunity to hear any. I know, because they have higher sensitivity they dont require as much power for a given SPL. Doesn't change the fact that they handle less total power. I may need to go with PA speakers. I'm dropping the [bs] button here. The RF 83 will not go louder than either of the big three Heritage. Your math is wrong. Besides that, they blew because of displacement-limited power handling was exceeded, not thermal power....ie. the signal drove them to a frequency, at too high of an amplitude, near the lowest portion of the cabinet's passband. No air-load yields über cone excursions = your results +1 to Brac's recommendation for distributed audio. That or consider getting a sub to take the load off the RF's in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madfusker Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Check out my thread here: http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/153196.aspx?PageIndex=1 Replacements aren't too bad and I would fix them for sure. The smaller magnet speaker seems to be good, just doesn't look like the old one. Unless I missed something, it looks like you blew 2 drivers? They run about $60 shipped and even if you blew all 6 that would be $360 to fix speakers worth over $1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjr Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I had epiphany when I woke up today. I have no processor for these things. My audio sources go to the 2-track inputs of an Alesis mulitmix for volume control. The 2-track outputs go to the Sherbourn inputs. I think the diagnosis is accurate. Too much power at too low of a frequency caused excessive excursion. There's nothing in the system to filter low frequencies. Or do the built-in crossovers filter low frequencies? As for SPL level calculations.......The mighty Klipschorn has a 104dB sensitivity and 100W power handling. That's 124dB, just as advertised, max output (at 1 meter). The RF-83s only have 100 dB sensitivity, but handle 250W. That's still about 124dB, the same as the Khorn, and more than either the LaScala or Cornwall. Again, the Heritage will probably sound better, but not necessarily as loud. Maybe only a couple dB, but dBs are dBs. I think my best option is to repair these and (if needed) get something to give me a crossover I can set around 30 or 40 Hz. Then, there's always not playing them so loud. I just put some music on with the 82s connected and turned it up to my "normal" loud level. It was 85-90dB at my furthest listening position. I went to about 3 feet from one speaker at this level and got 116dB. So yeah, I was probably just trying to play way too loud with the 83s because I definitely had them a lot louder than I just had these 82s. It still sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad311 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Below is a link to a damage rf-83 speaker on ebay. Maybe make a offer just for the crossover and drivers. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RF-83-Floorstanding-Speaker-Single-/180653939398?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2a0fd05ac6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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