Guest " " Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 btw, check your batteries...lost are only good for a year....batteries cost almost as much as a new UPS....if you go the UPS route...that does not mean you have line conditioning and surge protection. size wise the UPS needs to be 2 to 3 times the max current draw of your largest amp (turn on surge), yeah...thats what that beep is alabout when you turn on your gear...you UPS is too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 most folks don't need UPS...a whole house surge protector is all most folks need. if you got cb transmissions and what not crepping into your system.....then you need a line conditioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 this is a good surge protector with a 2 sage RMI filter. the MOV's in these things is what captures lighting and surges from power tools. the MOV's have a memory and as they retain the surge, their internal resistance drops. eventually, they blow like pop corn. an indicator would normally say "protect" until the MOV blows. Then you need to replace the surge protrctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 here's what recording studio's do http://www.equitech.com/support/BPSpecs.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have no idea what my 'sine' is other than Taurus but I just checked for the beep you mentioned speakerfritz. I turned on the two VRD monos and the Peach at the same time (I had a spare toe) and max draw was 175 watts with no beep. At listening levels using the CD I have an indicated draw of 212 watts (both amps, pre, CD player and phono power supply) with a 50 minute run time / 17% capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 your sine is "Stepped approximation to a sinewave", which would be the red steps in this photo. here's the industry standard view on using modified sine wave inverters. Modified Sine Wave Inverters (also called Modified Squarewave) Designed to emulate a sine wave waveform, Modified Sine Wave are cheaper than Pure Sine Wave inverters. They mimic the sine wave shape in large steps (much like that of a stairwell). Lots of simple appliances like light bulbs and electric motors will work fine with a modified wave inverter...though they produce more noise and heat. As these inverters do not produce clean sine wave power, it is not recommended you use them to run electronic equipment like TVs, stereos and computers. Clocks and other timing devices can run either fast or slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 your sine is "Stepped approximation to a sinewave" Would that be during normal A.C. operation or during battery back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Would that be during normal A.C. operation or during battery back up? Cleanest power comes when a UPS connects the appliance directly to AC mains. Power from the battery is that 'dirty' or worse. This 120 volt UPS (that is perfectly ideal for all electronics) is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. If a UPS outputs 'pure sine waves', then the recommendation provides specification numbers that say so. A pure sine wave UPS is shown in every above picture. In every case, the waveform is nothing but a sum of pure sine waves. An example of why lies are so easy and routine when spec numbers are missing. How to get 'cleaner' power when in battery backup mode? That UPS typically starts at $1000. Why spend so much money for something so unnecessary? A recommendation without numbers (ie %THD) is usually called wild speculation, distortion, or an advertising myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 another cheap ups...another square wave...loss of dynamics...bad In my experience, it's worse than lost dynamics. The one time I had a system on an APC UPS utilizing backup power, the receiver started buzzing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm also using an APC C10. I got mine on eBay for something like 75% off. Bought it mainly as a fancy surge protector and to have a device to plug my equipment in to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In my experience, it's worse than lost dynamics. The one time I had a system on an APC UPS utilizing backup power, the receiver started buzzing! yes, common problem....cause is the extended duration of the flat wave crest (similar to RMS) compared to the very short duration of a sine peak. cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In my experience, it's worse than lost dynamics. The one time I had a system on an APC UPS utilizing backup power, the receiver started buzzing! yes, common problem....cause is the extended duration of the flat wave crest (similar to RMS) compared to the very short duration of a sine peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Bought it mainly as a fancy surge protector and to have a device to plug my equipment in to. Read the spec numbers. Near zero. Virtually no surge protection. And just enough above zero so that adverting can hype it as 100% protection. Better is to buy a $4 power strip in Wal-Mart. Critically important feature on any power strip is a 15 amp circuit breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 [Y] and that's why what SF said and discussed regarding true sine wave UPS's is valid. You get what you pay for. If it's isolated, and clean, and is a true sine wave, it's gonna' be expensive.... Trust me.... I know (LOL!!!) Tom, thanks for the brief discussion on the house system and why the ground is the key. You might want to expound on what isolated power UPS's actually are designed for and why studios may need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This is a great discussion but due to the technical nature, it leave me with some confusion. For most of us newbies, are devices like Panamax useful? Can anyone recommend several devices to consider for use to protect our equipment. I may not be alone in the fact that most of my equipment is on one outlet due to the location of the gear. This may lead to additional electrical problems since the typical outlet is only 15 or 20 amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The first question that you need to ask yourself is; Have YOU ever lost any electronic equipment due to electrical issues in your home? If not, do YOU actually know anyone who has? Second question, if the answer to the first is yes is: What was the cause.......? There is a huge amount of Snake Oil associated with so called and very rarely TRUE/ACTUAL Power Conditioners. Someone said there is no reason to fix a problem if one does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 For most of us newbies, are devices like Panamax useful? Can anyone recommend several devices to consider for use to protect our equipment. Any protector that might work at a wall receptacle is already inside all appliances. Read spec numbers from a power strip protector selling in Wal-Mart for $7. Compare them to the numbers on any Panamax selling for $40 or $85. Similar. Same protector circuit. But the more expensive one pays for expensive advertising. Any layman can read specs. Most don't. Most are only informed by advertising. Therefore let themselves become confused or scammed. Long before asking for a solution, first define the problem or threat. No magic protection exists for 20+ anomalies. Each anomaly requires different solutions. Again, advertising. How often do they mention stuff any layman has heard of: sags, brownouts, harmonics, floating ground, power factor, high voltage, spike, noise .... Which one do you want to solve? What are symptoms of your failures? Confusion exists when common electrical anomalies are not discussed by the information source. If advertising discussed these anomalies, then you would be disparaging Panamax and equivalent products such as Furman and Monster. Many reasons say these companies are known for integrity: ABB, Intermatic, Square D, Leviton, Siemens, General Electric, and Cutler-Hammer to name but a few. How many recommended them instead of Belkin, Panamax, Monster, or Furman? Only the latter are promoted by advertising myths - and no spec numbers. What electrical anomaly are you trying to avert? A question often avoided by Panamax to protect obscene profit margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The only electrical problem I ever had was a storm that knocked out all the cordless phones. My home is fairly new and no major electrical problems. Thanks for the replies. The panamax conditioners that I have seen are expensive, $350 or more. No reason to spend more than you really have to. I was more concerned about equipment protection and did not think it would have a major impact on SQ for my gear. Last month I did buy a Rocket fish power conditioner for around $!00. The rocket fish did solve one problem I had which, was the need for a master switch to turn on and off everything with just the press of a button. Still it is somewhat of an expensive surge protector. This forum is very educational and is a big plus to being a Klipsch ower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 ABB "whole house" panel box is good, I've had one since I moved in. i never had a blow out on anything during the wild surges and drops that Forida seems to be noted for..... However.... I like to turn my stuff off with some time allowed when the crap hits the fan. I also want really clean power and a true sine wave feeding the stuff, so an UPS is the solution that I need. It also gives me the capability of phones and radio until the storms let up for me to start the generator. But, it's got to be good, real good, with 800 joules rating or above..., provide me with at least 20 minutes of run time. Those types, however, cost money..... alot..... Tom, please expound on the joules business, within the context of such a device in line after a whole house system. Also, if you could, talk about voltage variances, how to stabilize those (the Florida problem...), and sine wave output vs simulated sine wave output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwingylee Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I second the use of "balance power". I once visited a amateur recording studio and the engineer had an Equitech balance power supply for his equipment. The noise floor was 20dB lower with the Equitech power supply. I had a chance to try a similar unit at home myself: a Furman IT-1220. I noticed much more detail and the back ground is, for the lack of a better term, " blacker". I now have a Furman IT-1220 in my system, supplemented by a Monster AVS2000 that holds the output at 120V. The electricity in my system fluctuates between 122 - 127VAC.... I tried living without the Furman, the Monster,... but ultimately decided to keep both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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