How big is your vocabulary?

[Chris A]

A true mark of intelligence is know how to use your resources.

[Y][Y][Y]

Testing to sort people's abilities into bins is another problem - and typically done not very well with regard to predicted scholastic outcomes. Testing to find the top 0.001% of students isn't any easier if you are trying to correlate to career outcomes years later.

I recommend Robyn Dawes paper on "The Robust Beauty of Improper Linear Models" for decision making: it's very entertaining once you get past the prob & stats used to prove that the method works.

I use his approach quite often in building all kinds of decision models. It can even help to decide what stuff you need to buy and in what order in your hi-fi setup, and how much should you be willing to spend given a budget... []

I like system-level trades..[] and Moneyball (the book)... [Y]

The same technique can (and is) used in analyzing new business cases. Any entrepreneurs here?

Chris

[dtel]

It took me a long time to look up all those words. I had to open another browser and google them all. Then I knew their definitions. A true mark of intelligence is know how to use your resources.

[Y]

Your in good company.

“Never memorize something that you can look up.”
? Albert Einstein

But he also said

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
? Albert Einstein

My favorite

“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
? Albert Einstein

[Islander]

thanks islander. that was fun.

You're welcome, DD. I think that's all it's meant to be. I doubt anyone would be hired or fired over their results on this fun quiz.

[garyrc]

Testing to sort people's abilities into bins is another problem - and typically done not very well with regard to predicted scholastic outcomes.

There is an irony with the GRE. It allows students to -- validly or
invalidly -- sort themselves into bins, and if they don't, the admitting
faculty can take the GRE scores as a hint concerning who should be put
into the out box -- just a hint, because after the Nader and other
lawsuits a person is very unlikely to be denied admission on the basis of
the GRE alone. But, the Dark Secret (at least among the public) is
that scores on the GRE don't correlate very well with grades in
graduate school because the range of scores becomes truncated, a no
no in correlation. People scoring low on the GRE tend not to show up in
graduate school, either because they are discouraged and don't apply,
or
because they are rejected --- so we have a truncated range of GRE
scores. That alone would lower a Pearson r. But wait, we are not
through. People who are admitted to grad school are expected
to do well -- in a way they are admitted because the faculty predicts
that they will earn almost all "As." Those who finish, do. Unlike on the undergraduate level, a "B" in a
graduate course is bad news, and a "C" has the feeling of an "F."
With students pounding on the gates to get in, modern grad schools don't
want to waste resources on students who get many grades below "A" once
they are in grad school. If a grad student is having trouble, the faculty often gives them a lot of help, or refers them for counseling, or the student drops out. So, the the range becomes truncated on
the grades axis as well. The lower part of the scatter diagram drops
away on both axes, producing a very low and not significant correlation.

If we admitted everyone, the GRE might turn out to be highly correlated with grad school grades.

[oldtimer]

It's well past time to change the educational system to funnel talents into appropriate skills training, from MBA to mechanic. Germany comes to mind, but God forbid we do anything that makes sense if it smacks of "european style socialism." BTW from what I can gather from all the sound bites anything european is automatically a style of socialism.

[Islander]

It's well past time to change the educational system to funnel talents into appropriate skills training, from MBA to mechanic. Germany comes to mind, but God forbid we do anything that makes sense if it smacks of "european style socialism." BTW from what I can gather from all the sound bites anything european is automatically a style of socialism.

Oh, there are wackier things than that going on:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/302200/20120221/indiana-republican-bob-morris-accuses-girl-scouts.htm

[garyrc]

It's well past time to change the educational system to funnel talents into appropriate skills training, from MBA to mechanic. Germany comes to mind, but God forbid we do anything that makes sense if it smacks of "european style socialism." BTW from what I can gather from all the sound bites anything european is automatically a style of socialism.

Increasing the

number of internships or apprenticeships might help. There are a few

college programs in which the students spend several hours a week in

(sometimes paid) internships, then come to seminars to postmortem and

fine tune their work week, as well as receive some formal education.

Paul Goodman thought that even medical students would benefit from

working with a physician before going to medical school, perhaps before their upper division

work as undergraduates. I mentioned this to my surgeon (about 40 years

ago) and he said, "That's the way I did it -- in a M.A.S.H. unit in

Korea!" He said that when he got back he was far ahead of some of his

fellow medical students that didn't have that experience, and the

detailed cognitive map of the human body he had was thus provided at the

taxpayer's expense. Gosh, I hope that's not socialist.

Our fear of socialism is in part because we are so compulsively

and irrationally protective of the purity of our capitalism. The

latter is a fiction to begin with. We have had a mixed system for a

long time, and that's the way it should be. We (appropriately) pay for

our freeways out of taxes -- that's why they aren't called turnpikes.

The fact that they aren't really "free" doesn't and shouldn't bother us,

but paying for health care in exactly the same way activates the Europe

phobia in too many of our citizens. I see nothing wrong with a mixed

system with a sphere of pure capitalism on the top (let Cameron or

Spielberg make all the money they want -- buying a ticket to go to the

movies is voluntary, as is buying a great speaker system), and a sphere

of socialism underneath. The Constitution does not specify what kind of

economic system we should have, but does authorize levying taxes. A Spielberg or Cameron work hard at what they do, and get monetary reward in proportion to the number of tickets or Blu-rays/DVDs they sell. Adam Smith might approve of their kind of capitalism, but I wonder if CEOs getting big bonuses

for bad -- or criminal -- behavior that damages their businesses might

shock the pants off him. Pure we're not. So let's dispense with the

phobic behavior.

[Chris A]

But, the Dark Secret (at least among the public) is that scores on the GRE don't correlate very well with grades in graduate school because the range of scores becomes truncated, a no no in correlation.

Truncated statistical distributions are issues to deal with analytically, but a fact of life in higher education, I agree, and there is a lot of truncation in higher education (and lower education, as well: just look at the cumulative dropout rates from grades 7-12...but that's another subject []).

Have you seen the story about the failed applicant to UT (Texas) graduate school going in front of the U.S. Supreme Court to argue that if one is trying to eliminate "racial discrimination" in institutions of higher learning that you should eliminate "race" as a decision variable in admission? Novel approach. I hope English is each applicant's first language rather than incoming knowledge of the field...and aptitude in higher mathematics. []

Chris

[Groomlakearea51]

You know, Ya'll talk real good like.... but can you go live in the woods for a month with nothin' but a spool of fishin line, a huntin' knife, and a blanket? [6]

Vocabulary is great, so is edumacation. But as ole' Coolidge said, "The world is full of educated derelicts".... []

On that note, I will be gettin' my GED next week. It was a tough thing to do. I kept flunkin' history cause of the arguments with the history teacher regardin' the "War of Northern Aggreshion".....

[JJkizak]

In the words of one of America's geatest linguists, "I reckon so".

JJK

[Groomlakearea51]

Yassiree!!! []

[Chris A]

Mark,

Good to see you back here with us common folk.

I thought that someone would jump on that one like a duck on a June bug long before you finally did...I guess that most everyone here is either:

1) asleep,

2) tired of arguing, or

3) doesn't pay any attention to my posts (and I suspect that it's this one...)

Maybe I should ask to "get inside the firewall" to discuss this sort of topic because it will eventually get the thread locked here (I would wager). But it is interesting, nevertheless.

Your Crown amp upgrade thread has really gotten a lot of interest over the last few months. I see many folks that have found used D-45s and D-75As since your original postings. I learned a lot from that experience. Too bad that some of the parts have gone obsolecent since that time. That was a great DIY project.

Have you thought about doing a JFET amp--a la Juicy Music style? I'm told that the price of these devices is getting reasonable.

Chris

[Chris A]

I am deeply involved - up to my eyeballs - in photography these days

If you have any online galleries that can be browsed by riff raff like me, I'd like to know: I recently reinvested in a new DSLR body (modestly) and am again interested in that sort of stuff.

Chris

[garyrc]

Have you seen the story about the failed applicant to UT (Texas) graduate school going in front of the U.S. Supreme Court to argue that if one is trying to eliminate "racial discrimination" in institutions of higher learning that you should eliminate "race" as a decision variable in admission? Novel approach.

That would work only if there is not a face to face interview. Also
every once in a while, a student will stick a picture in the
application envelope .... a secretary could be employed to remove all
pictures, before the committe sees the applications.

There were
face to face interviews for a few of the grad programs I was familiar
with --- often in fields where interpersonal skills were necessary, such
as Clinical Psychology and Counseling programs. For the record, in those programs, I never detected a whiff of racial discrimination. Its pssible I just missed seeing it.

On the other hand both the accounting program and the accounting section of the university administration were accused of discriminating in favor of
one broad ethnic group. The accounting section was sued by an
applicant of another ethnic group. Ironically both ethnic groups
involved have been stereotyped as being either "good with figures" or
"good with money." Around campus this case was uneasily referred to as
the "What am I, chopped liver?" case.

The big question is whether
to do something about inequality that occurred in the past, as current
applicants were growing up and being educated, from pre-school (if any)
up. If we had worked hard on this kind of problem from the '60s and
'70s on, inequality of opportunity would no longer be a big issue, and
bias in selection would be less than it is. We did some things, but we
didn't work very hard. Several generations have gone by since these
problems became clear, and we still have the issues. In addition to a
lack of will, and a lack of agreement on the solutions, our resources --
and any number of talented people who could have helped -- went
elsewhere, especially into war.

Long ago Paul Goodman proposed an
alternative model for elementary through high school education in the
public schools, which he calculated would cost no more per
student than was then spent by administration heavy school districts, at
least in the cities. Since then some of the features of his proposal
have been adopted, but not the key elements that would transform the
schools. Because of our culture having become more technical since
then, there would have to be some changes, such as using shared computer
facilities, labs, etc. His plan back then would have cut
administration down to a very low level -- until it cost much less than
teaching, rather than more. Seven students and two adults --- one hand
selected master teacher, and one graduate student intern (or even an
undergraduate intern) would meet every morning in donated space (store
fronts, converted garages, whatever) then spend the rest of the day out
in the city, at the laboratories, places of business, theaters, concert
halls, museums, film and TV studios, parks, etc. The key would
be a never ending conversation, in which the students would be exposed
to adult lexicon and syntax, analysis and synthesis all day long, much
more than would be typical in city school. Everything could be
discussed in ways that taught the subject being discussed, as well
historical, philosophical, scientific perspectives, methodological
issues, etc. Nowadays, a kind of alternation between the conversation
and looking things up on hand held electronics would probably be needed,
so that all the students would not have their noses in their iPhones
and miss the conversation.

One example: a pair of teachers in
Boonville, CA, quit their jobs and educated their kids this way, while
the whole family worked the farm -- discussing, calculating, puting into
many perspectives. Despite farm life, they weren't isolated. There
were small and big businesses nearby, an artist's colony and highly
intellectual population down the road, and a very stimulating newspaper
published locally ... on the masthead were the words, "Newspapers should
have no friends." The family had both biological and adopted
children, and they all got past the standardized testing, and were
admitted to prestigious universities, including some in the Ivy League.

[garyrc]

My view of social engineeering is that it can be used both beneficially and destructively - like most tools. So, I am neither for it or against it, but I am for achieving certain human goals by using whatever tools will work best.

Yes!

[Chris A]

Have you read Freakonomics? Especially the chapter called: "Perfect Parenting, Part II, or Would a Roshanda by Any Other Name Smell as Sweet?"

Names often communicate race/background. How does one deal with that?

For instance: Orangejello and Yellowjello (pronounced "orangelo and yelagelo") are typecast to certain racial profies, unfortunately. Naming your daughter "Sh*thead" (pronounced "shi-'teed") is also typecast...read the book.

Chris

P.S. I didn't realize that the forum catches reserved words (socially unacceptable but perhaps proper names) and bleeps them out...cool...

[garyrc]

Names often communicate race/background. How does one deal with that?

If you are talking about admission to grad programs (or college) or hiring, don't use names. The now completely overworked secretaries could match up names with decisions later.

Actually, this method is common in reducing bias in everyday college work: Exams, papers, etc., at least out here on the Left Coast (one reason I love it). As far back as the '70s, when I was in grad school, we had to use code names when writing our three hour essay exams (shudder), and on papers for one professor, and on "objective" exams for a few others.

[oldtimer]

Good points Mark, but instead of the economic structure I would say the dearth of responsible communities of responsible elders is the limiting factor.

[oldtimer]

Have you read Freakonomics? Especially the chapter called: "Perfect Parenting, Part II, or Would a Roshanda by Any Other Name Smell as Sweet?"

Names often communicate race/background. How does one deal with that?

For instance: Orangejello and Yellowjello (pronounced "orangelo and yelagelo") are typecast to certain racial profies, unfortunately. Naming your daughter "***" (pronounced "shi-'teed") is also typecast...read the book.

Chris

P.S. I didn't realize that the forum catches reserved words (socially unacceptable but perhps proper names) and bleeps them out...cool...

Sounds more like characters in a Dan Jenkins novel, I wonder if the Freakonomics author borrowed them?

[Islander]

And then we have adults determined to complete Grade 10, in spite of their limitations.