Did Sony Ever, Ever Build a Audiophile Level Speaker?

[thebes]

Back when this company totally dominated audio gear, there was this perception that Sony personified quality. I never understood it, because in my mind Sony stood for mass-market junk that sounded bad and broke very easily.

Their speakers were the worst. Cheap, thin boxes that sounded awful.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a Sony basher. Indeed, I have a turntable I use in my main system which is pretty darn good, although with some limitations. But hey that could be said about any audio product.

I just cold never understand how the music side of Sony could release such stellar recordings, and have what amounts to a tin ear, when it came to their speakers. Were the engineers listening through other speakers when they did their mastering?

So what am I missing?

[HDBRbuilder]

I don't think Sony ever really aimed at the REAL hi-fidelity market, since they leaned more towards the television market, anyway. They did do one thing well, they were one of the most successful at marketing mid-fi separates packaged together as "rack systems", normally with a glass-fronted "rack" cabinet, which were all the rage in the late 1980's and into the 1990's...they were GREAT at that con game! It made a ton of profit for them, and they marketed it along with their "Trinitron" televisions as a matching electronics package. I even know some mis-informed souls who still swear by Sony for all their electronic needs/wants! Just my humble opinion...but I have OWNED nothing with SONY written on it, and likely never will.

[Speakmeister]

Sony did in the past and does make high end speakers like this these: http://www.techfresh.net/new-sony-ss-ar1-high-end-speakers/

Roy Kimber uses these to show off high audiophile recordings and they sound very very good.

[skonopa]

I do remember the Sony "Qualia" line, which was some really high-end gear. That line did include a pair of $2,400 headphones (the Qualia 010). The line also included a high-end SACD player with amp that wen for something like $6,700. No speakers other than the headphones, though. I also saw about those SS-AR1 speakers. They do look nice - would be intersting to hear a pair.

The only Sony gear I have is a PS/3 gaming console and a PS Vita handheld console.

[vnzbd]

I had an ES avr from Sony, their top of the line at the time. It was one of the first to have Dolby Digital and DTS. I did like the sound of it with my KLF 20s, much more so than the Yamaha that the dealer tried to push. It replaced an Onkyo and blew it out of the water. No experience with any of Sony's speakers though, never saw any at the dealers. I feel that Sony is similar to Bose with a unique offering trying to corner a niche in the market with products like the walkman and such.

[Boxx]

The Sony SS-860 a very nice speakers system.

(late 70's)

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Sony did in the past and does make high end speakers like this these: http://www.techfresh.net/new-sony-ss-ar1-high-end-speakers/

Roy Kimber uses these to show off high audiophile recordings and they sound very very good.

I have heard of these, never heard them. This article has a decent run down of Sony's statement products, and a review of the SS-AR1 speakers. It is in Stereophile, so, you know...

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-ar1-loudspeaker

Do you mean Ray Kimber?

[Speakmeister]

Yep, Ray. They had these in the same room as the JBL everest a few years back. I sat down for a demo and assumed it was the JBL the whole time, turns out it was the Sony SS-AR1's. The brochure went on about only harvesting the wood at a certain time of year when the grain was the tightest. I am sure the Sony engineers liked actually making something cool.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

When I was about 12 or 13 (very early 1980's) Ray Kimber was doing night club installs and did an install at a hotel where my step father worked. I was already interested in audio and this really got me interetsed. I remember klipsch folded horn woofers, JBL tweeters, a dbx eq (all digital - yea ha) and two Technics SL1200's. He had just started making this funny looking woven speaker wire and gave the about 1/2 of a spool. Still have some of it.

It seems that any company, if they are willing to put forth the resources, can make an audiophile speaker. They justy need to be dedicated and get the right talent and have the resources to throw a it.

I went from B&W's 800's to two pairs of current "audiophile speakers." One is a pair of Pioneer S-1EX speakers, which are actually TAD speakers that were changed to have a "Pioneer" logo on the grill after they were developed (the back of the speakers is labeled "TAD." The other are Klipsch Palladium P37's. People are stunned when they hear either pair because "Pioneer and Klipsch are not supposed to sound like that" and no, they have not heard heritage set up properly.

[Marvel]

Sony made/makes some very good headphones, and made some superb reel to reel tape recorders.

[HDBRbuilder]

Yep, Ray. They had these in the same room as the JBL everest a few years back. I sat down for a demo and assumed it was the JBL the whole time, turns out it was the Sony SS-AR1's. The brochure went on about only harvesting the wood at a certain time of year when the grain was the tightest. I am sure the Sony engineers liked actually making something cool.

Speakermeister...Thanks for a classic [bs] line from a brochure designed for audiofools reading! That made my day! I'm still wiping my coffee off my shirt!

I am sure the next line in the brochure stated about how "each lovingly-sliced strip of fine veneer used was seasoned for 75 years, to ensure lifetimes of beauty due to consistent moisture retention and stabilization."

Or maybe the brochure was just honest by stating that most deciduous trees are PREFERABLY harvested when the moisture content is lowest while the leaves are off the trees...with the additiional bonus of the poisonous snakes being in hibernation during the winter and less wear-and-tear on the chainsaws. And, since moisture content is lowest, it takes less time to kiln-dry the wood...it also allows more logs on the truck because they are lighter in weight...thereby lowering transportation costs. And they probably got their custom-ordered pre-veneered slabs from Georgia-Pacific, using veneer sliced straight off of lumber just out of the kiln to begin with! The veneer was probably on plywood or, even MORE likely, it was on MDF, whose sawdust may have actually come from trees harvested when the grain was tightest, who knows?

...when the grain was tightest...I'm still laughing here! The live wood is always discarded, never used for fine woodworking...TOO FUNNY![]

[thebes]

Interesting comments one and all.

It would seem their newest statement piece is indeed targeted at the upper end of the audio spectrum at $27,000 a pair. Of course, if price was the sole indicator of quality, none of us would own Klipsch.The Stereophile article indicates that from time-to-time they have offered speakers overseas in the audiophile range.

From what I found about the Sony SS 860, it was only sold in Japan. Like many higher end Sony offerings, it was for domestic consumption only and not gaijin audiophiles. It is nice to see that they were willing to give horns a try.

[HDBRbuilder]

Interesting comments one and all.

It would seem their newest statement piece is indeed targeted at the upper end of the audio spectrum at $27,000 a pair. Of course, if price was the sole indicator of quality, none of us would own Klipsch.The Stereophile article indicates that from time-to-time they have offered speakers overseas in the audiophile range.

Sorry, but I just HAD to read the

brochure….and the Yeller Button award for today goes to...SONY marketing!

Straight from the online Sony ad:

The wood

behind the sound.

Like a

priceless piano, the SS-AR1 and AR2 Loudspeakers are chiefly crafted out of

wood. The wood for the baffle board comes from Japan's island of Hokkaido where

winters are extremely cold, a condition reflected in the tight grain, hardness

and rigidity of the indigenous maple. The trees are hand-selected with the

assistance of local wood specialists and felled in November, when their growth

slows and the grain is at its tightest.

IOW: thick maple

plywood

However,

building the entire enclosure from a single type of wood can result in an

excessively rigid and hard sound. For this reason we selected another, somewhat

softer cold-climate wood, Scandinavian birch, for the speaker's side and rear

panels.

IOW: Baltic birch

plywood

This unique

choice of woods insures exceptional freedom from unwanted vibrations, as well

as a natural, balanced, musically expressive tone.

Next: The

Build

Built like

the musical instrument they are.

The

dimensions of a speaker cabinet are rarely perfect. For easier assembly,

designers typically make a slight allowance for error and can leave loose

joints resulting in an acceptable if ever-so slightly imperfect cabinet.

For the SS-AR

and AR2, Sony demanded nothing less than the highest possible accuracy in

woodworking. Our engineers reached out to a cabinet-making company that

provides precision components for musical instruments and asked them to build a

prototype. The prototype was so precise that all of the pieces held tightly

together without any glue at all.

I bet you gotta glue 'em together, putty up the joints and plywood voids, and sand 'em slick as glass before you put on that "exquisite"seamless gloss black piano finish, tho!

In addition

to meticulous accuracy, this cabinetmaker is also responsible for the

loudspeakers' exquisite piano finish. But you'd expect no less from craftsmen

who help build grand pianos.

IOW: they outsourced

the building to Yamaha’s woodworking department????

And how much do they ask an audiophile

to pay for this “exquisiteness” of a piano-gloss-black-finished plywood cabinet

containing cone drivers???? MSRP is a

paltry $27,000.00 per pair… GEEZ!

I better get some before they are all

gone!

[thebes]

Your on a roll today Andy. good to see you back here.

Guess you've been away from for awhile, though. Didn't you hear that the Khorn's been replaced as top dog, not by the Jubilee, but with the Palladium P39 (name kinda stolen from a fighter plane).

Marketeers are marketeers. They will all tell you that hyperbole is our middle name. Read the following and try to separate the bling from the sound."

"Offering the highest level of perfection, the Palladium™ P-39F
floorstander pushes the boundaries of performance, style and technology.
In fact, this high-end luxury speaker is the pinnacle of modern-day
horn-loaded technology, letting you hear and emotionally connect with
your music and movies precisely as the original artist or director
intended.

The Speaker as Sculpture


The P-39F’s dramatic styling was born from our partnership with BMW
Group DesignworksUSA. With an eye toward home interior and furniture
designs, this pairing created a signature look that blends classic
Klipsch audio and a clean, contemporary appearance.

The
floorstander’s “boat-tail” enclosure hints at the power and performance
inside, while maintaining a high degree of sophistication and beauty.
Next to its unique shape, the most striking visual statement is the
exotic zebra-grain Linia veneer that’s available in three different
finishes: natural, merlot and espresso. The horizontal linear grain and
absence of visible fasteners allows the P-39F to elegantly complement
your furniture and décor.

Side-firing ports are another
example of the marriage of form and function. The ports themselves
increase bass response, while their metallic finish mirrors the horn
and driver trim rings. Because P-39F loudspeakers are sold as matched
left and right pairs, the ports make an easily seen visual statement. An
adjustable brushed aluminum floating base supports the cabinet at just
four points, rather than the entire area of the base. This raises the
cabinet from floor level but maintains absolute stability."

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Marty,

Good point. I can say that all the marketing BS aside, the Palladiums are equally as good as the B&W 800 series (maybe even better, they are punchier), and their actual street price is less and they do not require a huge amp, so Klipsch did very well with these, even if the boys in sales are lay'in it on a little thick.

[HDBRbuilder]

Your on a roll today Andy. good to see you back here.

Guess you've been away from for awhile, though. Didn't you hear that the Khorn's been replaced as top dog, not by the Jubilee, but with the Palladium P39 (name kinda stolen from a fighter plane).

Marketeers are marketeers. They will all tell you that hyperbole is our middle name. Read the following and try to separate the bling from the sound."

Marty...

Corporate survival depends somewhat upon having items that others can't legally copy until a patent runs out. The patent on the K-horn design ran out years ago. Anybody can build it now, and call it something that is not trademarked, but few will do so simply because it IS NOT an easy build, but IS labor-intensive! Besides, in today's market its size, foot print and positioning needs make it difficult to sell very many.

The Jubilee runs into the same problems, since its bass bin is primarily a bifurcated pathway to either side into a pair of "S" horns, which is really nothing new, since even JBL did it with the second version of their "Hartsfield" back in the mid 1950's...so a patent can't really be issued for the bass bin part, nor can it be issued for the over-all system design as a whole...leaving only limited patentable possibilities to keep other companies from legally copying it.

The greatness of the Jubilee wasn't in its patentability..it was in its design parameters having been met...IOW, it was a two-way system which had a frequency response about the same "flatness" as the K-horn, but which extended below AND above the frequency range of the K-horn before rolling off into severe drops. IOW, Jube did more with less, so to speak.

The traditional goal of speaker design was to achieve flat response over the entire audible spectrum with the source from, or as near as possible to being from a single point, IOW as close to a ONE-way design as possible, so in that goal, the jubilee out-did the K-horn by being a two-way instead of a three-way with better performance...or at least that was the original goal in its design.

The original LaScala is in the same fix on the patentability, because its patent also ran out years ago.

So, what does the company have to do? They have to invent new stuff, preferably patentable, to remain competitive, BUT that stuff MUST SELL...or it won't keep the company alive. So, a new HIGH END line is not so unexpected given the circumstances. But, "High End" is a relative term...what does that really mean? High end of price range? High end of quality? High end of performance? High end of marketability in today's small foot-print requirements? High end of profitability per unit produced? I can go on and on, but won't, because I have made my point.

Klipsch is a company that has to survive and is doing what it takes to make that happen! Look around you...this is the era of "bling is king"...you see it everywhere...people are more into how much it costs than what it really is! Companies with nothing to sell in the "high-end' realm are dying off right and left! Klipsch is still alive, right?

P.S. I actually have a few thoughts about how the K-horn and Jubilee' bass bins MIGHT BE able to get a new patent, but it is not in the basic way in which they work, it is in another method of obtaining the patent. Maybe even the LaScala can benefit from these thoughts. I have to find out more about patents to be sure.

Andy

[dolbyscat]

Back when this company totally dominated audio gear, there was this perception that Sony personified quality.

Thebes....was this a general perception, or one that was contained in your mind????

[Dr Morbius]

Let's see, Sony audiophile speaker - $27,000. Klipschorn - $9000. I'll put my money on Klipsch!

[thebes]

Andy, I couldn't agree with you more. If Klipsch was only selling the big boys today they'd be long out of business. My primary point was that Sony's statements about cutting wood in the middle of winter is marketing over substance, jut like some of the hyperbole used by Klipsch in pushing it's Palladium line.

I should also add, I find your comments about the reasoning behind the development of the big boys to be wonderfully descriptive and trenchant

Now Tiger is someone here who knows his speakers and is he says the Palladium's are top notch than you bank on it. And at $20K they are cheaper than the New Sony high end.

Of course for half that money you have the Jubilee and purchase the TAD drivers for them.

[thebes]

Back when this company totally dominated audio gear, there was this perception that Sony personified quality.

Thebes....was this a general perception, or one that was contained in your mind????

I'd like to think that as Thebes thinks, so goes the nation. []

That also includes Canada because my father was born there so I've Canadian blood in me. The good French kind.

Indeed, I'm always amazed and shocked whenever anyone of this forum has the terminity to challenge one of my pontifications.

Besides, Sony didn't become the number one audio and video producer in the world because their customers thought the stuff was junk. It was pretty clear that Sony did have a rep for quality, and still does as far as their flat screens go.

Sure as always there were people who disagreed with this perception of Sony and bought other stuff because they perceived it was better. However, I've never seen a company be forthright and just come out and say we are selling cheap junk you suckers.