Deang Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Cyril Bateman did a series of tests back in the late 90s and early 2000s on wire, caps, and inductors -- that were printed in Electronics World magazine. At one point, he had a website where you could buy the CD that contained all of his articles and tests. I bought the CD, which I can't find now, but I do have everything on my PC. I don't know where his website is now, it looks like it has been moved, and there are too many links about the man for me to sift through to find it. Since he charged for his work, I don't want to steal from him -- so I am going to post this single article (while still inappropriate, is just a small sampling from the amazing pile of work this guy did). Enjoy. Measuring_speaker_cables.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary p Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Copper. HA !!! Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Best wires are ones long enough to reach from amp to speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo171 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Best wires are ones long enough to reach from amp to speaker. Just make sure you have the little wire stands to keep the wires off the carpet. [:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Did anyone read the article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Anyone? It all sounds the same right - even though it's been proven it doesn't. I guess its easier to make cracks and stick your head in the sand than it is to spend and hour reading and thinking through something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I prefer the empirical method. I listen. I can tell you that with Kimber 12TC my speakers had too much bass, very tubby-sounding bass, and in my room, almost unlistenable bass. Switching to Nordost flat wire (their cheapest cable) cured the bass excess and some of the tubbiness. Having said that, I'm also aware that my amplifier (a Rogue Audio Tempest Magnum vacuum-tube integrated) is NOT at all typical of the average listener. Therefore, my experience may not translate to your rig. Cheers - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 "Did anyone read the article?" Yes, can I have the time back that I wasted reading it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The Supra Classic 1.6 I recommended goes for $1.22 a foot. Dean you cheap bastard at least spring for the 2.5 at $1.98 a foot! But seriously I bought some drivers you had that stuff soldered too a long time ago nice stuff with no snake oil applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Anyone? It all sounds the same right - even though it's been proven it doesn't. I guess its easier to make cracks and stick your head in the sand than it is to spend and hour reading and thinking through something. Wire do sound different no question about it.... the real question is should they sound at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I use twisted metal coat hangers for my Cornwalls. They soften the sound and make it warm (this is what you people referred to as "distortion", but it sounded good to my ears.) Since this is the Klipsch forum, I'm hoping that some lucky Cornwall owner may be able to make me an informed recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Soldered or crimped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well, despite my preface, the "wire ranters" are obviously out in force. I told you from the beginning, don't bother trying to convince me that I can't possibly hear what I do. To my ears, and on my rig, wires DO sound differently. I've heard the differences between different amplifiers, speakers, and speaker wires. I don't care to analyze the phenomenon - I just listen. That said, I'm wiling to abandon this thread. Thanks to those who recommended wires. I've had good luck swapping about with the wires I have on hand as it turns out. The Monsters & Kimbers worked not so well with the Cornwall IIIs, but the Nordost Flatwire sounded better. For those who claim "expectation bias," the Nordosts are NOT the most expensive of the wires (the Kimbers hold that distinction), nor are they the cheapest (the Monsters hold that one). In any case, the Cornwalls still aren't "keeper" speakers for me, but with the Nordost, they sound tolerable for the time being. Cheers - Boomzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The Canare 4S8 Star Quad is 13ga equivalent and is almost dirt cheap ($0.62 a foot). A 15ft pair (shipped) runs about $9 more than Monoprice 12ga zip cord (shipped). Will there be a big difference? Probably not. I'm thinking of ordering a 100M roll at $0.53 a foot to get free shipping, should make nice 4-conductor Speakon cables as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 There have been a number of people who have done similar analysis, but absolutely good reading! There have been numerous papers also debunking the importance of dielectric elements, the implication being that in most instances it's not a concern with relation to speaker cable, IC, etc. My enduring premise and position, and with respect to all who may differ, is that what ultimately matters in terms of personal music playback, and where one understands enough about what's required in terms of suitable materials and safe operating parameters for components and parts involved (as well as correct and safe installation of those components), is the resulting sound in terms of what a person prefers to hear -- despite what tests results may suggest to the contrary. The reading suggestion provided is really excellent, again IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBinLilRock Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I bought some KnuKoncepts Karma speaker wire from Ebay and terminated it myself. You can buy different gauges and different lengths. It is all oxygen free tinned copper. Works for me.I also have KnuKoncepts Karma wire that I bought off Ebay running to my cornwalls. I have been very satisfiied. http://www.ebay.com/itm/KnuKonceptz-Karma-Twisted-12-Gauge-OFC-Speaker-Cable-Wire-100-/380414359700?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item5892767894 The wire is flexible and easy to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 To my ears, and on my rig, wires DO sound differently. I've heard the differences between different amplifiers, speakers, and speaker wires. I don't care to analyze the phenomenon - I just listen.If you are using a tube amplifier with a high output impedance with CW IIIs (whose input impedance plots I don't currently have, but if similar to prior CW crossovers the input impedance varies a great deal, and is typically lower than 8 ohms in the midbass band), you probably will hear differences with different speaker cables. That's one reason why I don't prefer to use amplifiers with high output impedance. I recommend using the 4 ohm output transformer taps on your amplifier (if you are using an amplifier with more than ~0.5 ohms output impedance, a.k.a., a "damping factor" of 16 or less), then repeat your cable A-B listening tests. This may be a major source of problems with your listening tests on your CWIIIs. Another issue can be the room that your speakers are in - if it is small and acoustically live, then you may hear even more differences in speaker cables. I use a First Watt F3 to drive my TAD compression drivers which has a 1 ohm output impedance, i.e., a bit high, but the drivers it is connected to have a minimum input impedance of 11 ohms, so I don't hear much if any difference in speaker cables. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 The Cornwall III doesn't employ an autoformer in the filter (none of the new networks do), so the new networks present more of a resistive load than the highly reactive loads of the older filters. The impedance probably swings between 5 and 20 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 The impedance probably swings between 5 and 20 ohms. Even this sort of swing may be audible if using a SET on 8 or 16 ohm tap, or an OTL amp. The point is that speaker cables used when the amp is being loaded complexly by the speaker network that has an input impedance swinging above and below 10x the output impedance of the amplifier, and small changes in cable EM properties can lead to changes in output that are audible. It's debatable what constitutes "goodness" in cable performance if the overall standard of measure being used is "I like the way that it sounds"... [] Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomzilla Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 It's debatable what constitutes "goodness" in cable performance if the overall standard of measure being used is "I like the way the system sounds"... Chris I agree with you wholeheartedly, Chris. However, sometimes using cables to overcome the shortcomings of a speaker (as in my case) or to fine-tune the performance of an otherwise fine speaker makes sense. It's cheaper, after all, than changing the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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