The Dude Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Is preamp tube matching necessary if so what kind, tubedepot offers a couple of different matching. I will be putting these in my Scott 299, once I am finished fixing it up. Now do I need 4 of the same, I have read people putting 2 of one brand in the phono stage, and 2 of another brand in the line stage. This may be done more so, different amps/preamps. If not then which tube sockets are for the line stage, and which two are for the phono(I guess if need be I can look at the schematic). I was looking at ordering a pair of each jj's, tung-sol, and mullard. These are reproductions, and I have herd mixed reviews but thought to find out for my self, and the cost is low. I do have some Electro harmonix 12au7s in my linestage preamp and they sound good. I was looking at the 15-17.00 range. If it makes a difference I like some good mid's I live or want to live in the mid section, but don't want to spend a butt load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 hmmm... this is a case of telling you some of what you might not want to hear. I rolled quite a few different 12ax7 makes through the Scott and I wound up right where many folks told me I would... with Telefunken's for the pre and phono section. Looking from the front the phono is the pair on the left. They have to be there but if you don't use the phono you would be fine to put something cheap there. I'm parroting what others have told me but this is also my personal experience. Of course, I had to find out for myself. You might prefer to start at the end. If you ask, someone here might have some teles they might sell for a fair price. Smooth or ribbed plate... not much difference to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Is preamp tube matching necessary if so what kind, tubedepot offers a couple of different matching. MOst tube matching is done with the power tubes, that are going to be in a PP configuration and left/right channels. These would be amps where you can't bias them individually. They will be different in preamps, and really change the sound. The best sound I've had in my Merlin was with an old 6DJ8, can't remember the brand. But it went noisy on me. Now I have an EH in it and its very passable, and I have no complaints. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 . I do have some Electro harmonix 12au7s in my linestage preamp and they sound good. I was looking at the 15-17.00 range. If it makes a difference I like some good mid's I live or want to live in the mid section, but don't want to spend a butt load. I have never found 12AU7's as musical as 12BH7's IMO. If you want life and drama try the 12BH7's most equipment is conservative enough to handle the extra filament current. You just may like what you hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Bringing a little 12ax7 talk back up, anyone know the difference the some of the 12ax7s out there with in the same brand. Such as the gold pin jj 12ax7 for 19.99 each vs. the plain 12ax7s for 9.99 and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 hmmm... this is a case of telling you some of what you might not want to hear. I rolled quite a few different 12ax7 makes through the Scott and I wound up right where many folks told me I would... with Telefunken's for the pre and phono section. Looking from the front the phono is the pair on the left. They have to be there but if you don't use the phono you would be fine to put something cheap there. I'm parroting what others have told me but this is also my personal experience. Of course, I had to find out for myself. You might prefer to start at the end. If you ask, someone here might have some teles they might sell for a fair price. Smooth or ribbed plate... not much difference to my ears. I need another set of tubes, mainly needing to upgrade at least one set. I currently have a chance to purchase a matched set of Telefunken 12ax7 ribbed long plates for 60.00. I don't know if this is a good deal, seems prices are all over on the bay. Its either these or 2 pairs of the JJ ecc803s for the same price which I could use 2 pairs. There is a part of me that says you are happy with the JJ's but a part of me that wants to try the Telefunkens. Hmm decisions decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Looks like 60.00 may not be a bad price. I am going to call a local fellow and see what he has to offer. Edited November 24, 2013 by duder1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I would go with the matched pairs of regular JJ's. You could find a pair of Telefunken 12AX7's later after you get accustomed to the sound of the JJ's and then you would have a more definitive opinion of the difference in sound. Just because a tube tests good doesn't mean it will sound good (harmonics). Having listened to both brands above I preferred the Tele's, but would recommend you buy JJ's and forget about it. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) I think your right Keith, thanks. Now I wonder if I should run all JJs right now I have a pair in the phono pre amp, but have 12au7s from EH in the line stage. I think I might order 2 pairs, and put them in my Scott and move the siemens to the pre amp I am using with the EH's. At least like you said I would get accustomed to the sound of the JJs in one receiver. Edited November 24, 2013 by duder1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My impression is that Telefunkens last a long long time. You don't know how much life is left in those but $60 isn't a bad deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 where are folks buying there tubes so they know what they are getting are good and as advertised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 I have had good luck with tubedepot.com, some have had good luck with thetubestore.com, There is a fellow who sells high end good quality tubes everyone speaks of, I think Jesse something or another. I ordered a pair of JJs I will see how all JJs sound in my Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Have used Doug's Tubes without problems. Doug will give you tube suggestions upon request. Duder....probably thinking of Brent Jesse. Edited November 25, 2013 by Tarheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Duder....probably thinking of Brent Jesse. That's it. Once I get to a different stage I may give one of those 2 a call to see what they recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thanks guys... I need to try some rolling for my phono pre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) I have done a little tube rolling and it is fun to try different brands though to be quite frank I am not sure I could distinguish the subtle difference among tubes with the lights off. Here is the problem as I see it. Listening to different tubes back to back involves considerable lag time between installation and tube warm up and this would need to be consistent to be fair in evaluating what I hear. And of course source material and gear would have to remain identical as would volume levels and the age of the tubes. Some have even suggested that time of day and atmospheric conditions influence sound. Do I trust my memory of what I heard some ten minutes or two hours ago? Was I influenced by others opinions or what I had read or heard about specific tubes? Does mood influence what I hear. The list of variables goes on and on. Some power tubes may demonstrate less "personality" or "sonic differences" than phono or line stage tubes and I have only rolled four quads in my power amps so I am by no means an authority. A forum bud up in Virginia kindly loaned me a bunch of tubes to try in my preamp and CD player and after a week or two I settled on some that at that particular time struck my fancy. I ended up with Bugle Boys in the Jolida CD player and Telefunken in the Quicksilver Full Function preamp phono section. Another day I might have taken a shine to old stock RCA, Raytheon, or Siemens tubes. Tube rolling was a fun exercise for me if a bit frustrating and trying to squeeze that last drop of sweetness from a piece of gear is a lot of why we are here. I am enjoying this thread and would like to hear more from others about their experiences. Maybe Craig and Mark will talk about how they "voice" their tube equipment builds. Edited December 9, 2013 by Tarheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) I don't know if its a brake in issue, but I liked the JJs over the EHs. I don't know if any of them will open up as the break in, but I do know the JJs sounded warmer to me right out of the box as opposed to the EHs. Maybe when the EHs break in they will have a great sound, they are all so 12au7s as opposed to 12ax7s. I don't know if this has anything to do with the sound. I sent 2 pairs of 12ax7s to Craig when I had him rebuild my amp, a pair of JJs, and a pair of some German made ones brand unknown. When I was on the phone with him, I explained that it seemed in my pre amp the JJs sounded warmer then the German made ones did, while in the phono pre section. He talked highly of the JJs, did not have much to say about the German ones as they could have been old, or some off brand made in Germany that they just may have not be a good quality tube(more or less). My goal since I ordered another set of JJs, is to run all JJs in the Scott. Run the German made ones in the phono stage of the preamp with the EHs in the line stage. I will see how these all match up. I may end up down the road getting a pair of JJ 12au7s and trying a all JJ combo in the pre amp, or maybe a all EH combo in the pre amp. I think if I hear much of difference I may give some Telefunkens a try. But will buy from someone like Brent Jesse, to insure I get a good product, I feel the ones out on the bay are ify. If I had them on lone I wouldn't even mind trying a quad of NOS Mullards or RCAs. Edited November 26, 2013 by duder1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Duder, Are you trying 12AU7's in a Scott? If so you are just adding distortion. Don't fall for the trap that 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7'S are interchangable..... while they have the same pin out they all require different operating points for proper operation. This myth all stems from Guitars where varying degrees of distortion is the goal...that is not the case in Audio reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Duder, Are you trying 12AU7's in a Scott? If so you are just adding distortion. Don't fall for the trap that 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7'S are interchangable..... while they have the same pin out they all require different operating points for proper operation. This myth all stems from Guitars where varying degrees of distortion is the goal...that is not the case in Audio reproduction. No NO, I wouldn't do that. I guess I should be more clear, I have a pre amp I built that uses 12au7s in the line stage and 12ax7s in the phono stage. Hopefully that makes more since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhing Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Try Jim McShane. I buy my matched tubes and parts from him for my restore projects. He's very responsive and he wants to make sure he understands the sound quality you are looking for. I've never been disappointed in his recommendations. Just Google "Jim McShane tubes" and you'll find him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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