Adding an amp to an AVR

[kde]

This topic started in another posting, but this should warrant its own thread. Is there a benefit to adding an amp to an AVR? If so... what are the benefits? It seems that most people start with an AVR... and then some upgrade to separates. But once you have gone to separates (and maybe realized some of the complexity, or don't want to continue adding cost to get to the next level, etc) and are thinking about returning to an AVR -- would you still keep the amp and hook it up to the receiver for more power? Can the AVR use its internal amp as well as the external amp?

[derrickdj1]

This is a complex topic. Are amps beneficial, well it depends on what speakers your are driving, how loud you listen and how good your avr is in the power department. I like the amp/avr combo, it gives you the best of both worlds. A good preamp can run sone serious money and large avr companies can include and update features at a cheaper cost than some of the smaller companies that make preamps due to ecomony of scales.

I use two external amps and may be on the overkill side. But, I don't like running any of my gear very hard so the power overhead is good. Some people like a complex powerhouse look for their system and others want a more simple look. I like the fact that all the speakers in my setup can hit reference level in a movies with no srtain on the speakers or avr/amps. If cost is an issue, the use market is great for adding gear.

You will buy an amp, it is hard to ask the question and get it out of your mind, lol.

[K5SS]

Most modern "top shelf" amps have plenty of power for 95% of the people out there. I have had multiple AVR's and amps in the past, sometimes I didn't even notice a difference when I added a more powerful amplifier to my system. I like running a separate 2 channel amp for my mains and let the AVR run the 5 remaining speakers. The only reason I do this is because I generally crank up the volume when I am listening to music. My system is ever changing though and I will probably be adding a three channel to drive all three fronts, but I am a bit crazy. Basically, buy as much AVR as possible and see if you need more "oomph", only you can answer the questions you are answering. It's a fun learning experience though. Enjoy!

[kde]

So...it is possible to have an AVR use some channels from the internal amp... and then use the external amp for other channels? I was under the imprseeion that if you hooked an external amp to an AVR... that it would only use the external amp power and shut down the internal amp.

[ZombieWoof]

No , you can use say a XPA-3 amp to run your mains & center & then use the onboards to run the backs & surrounds

[ZombieWoof]

I run 9 channels all very large Heritage style speakers

9 channels of amplification allows me to use either a pre-/pro OR a Mid priced AVR ( not having to buy a flagship AVR )

amps last decades , while the tech behind modern sound & audio codecs changes , as well the delivery systems of each

( think HDMI & how mant times that has changed in the last 5 years )

Having my amps already allows me to change AVR & /or a processor at a lower cost due being able to buy mid priced AVRs or processors

I now use a Onkyo TX-NR1009 as a pre/pro & that replaced a TX-NR5008 AVR the cost difference was $1500.oo

( I up-graded due to the hughly improved Video dual processors in the 1009)

that money saved each time you buy a mid priced AVR pays for the amps the 1st go around & the 2nd go around that might be savings that go into a newer display .

[ZombieWoof]

Mongo here on the forum no longer uses a AVR at all he uses his Oppo 105, amps & loves it

[Zen Traveler]

This is a complex topic. Are amps beneficial, well it depends on what speakers your are driving, how loud you listen and how good your avr is in the power department.

I agree...My wife and I watched "Super 8" last night at Reference Volume and it was AWESOME using just the amps/power supply in the Denon AVR-4311ci. [H]

{Edit Note: I see I need to change my profile below, but still run the same speakers.}

[willland]

I agree...My wife and I watched "Super 8" last night at Reference Volume and it was AWESOME using just the amps/power supply in the Denon AVR-4311ci.

Tkdamerica.

In your case I would agree totally. Your 2nd from flagship model Denon AVR-4311ci(maybe even flagship at time of production) has a very potent amp section for an AVR. Your average mid level/priced AVR usually does not have the quality of power supply as your Denon does so it will not drive a full 7.1 HT setup to the kind of quality levels as the 4311CI.

Bill

[Zen Traveler]

Tkdamerica.

In your case I would agree totally. Your 2nd from flagship model Denon AVR-4311ci(maybe even flagship at time of production) has a very potent amp section for an AVR. Your average mid level/priced AVR usually does not have the quality of power supply as your Denon does so it will not drive a full 7.1 HT setup to the kind of quality levels as the 4311CI.

Bill

Thanks for the reply and acknowledgement. Believe me, I understand what you are saying and have expressed my opinion on this matter more than most.

[Youthman]

I wrote about my thoughts when I first added an amp to my system here.

[Zen Traveler]

I now use a Onkyo TX-NR1009 as a pre/pro & that replaced a TX-NR5008 AVR the cost difference was $1500.oo

( I up-graded due to the hughly improved Video dual processors in the 1009)

that money saved each time you buy a mid priced AVR pays for the amps the 1st go around & the 2nd go around that might be savings that go into a newer display .

I am not that familiar with Onkyo products but isn't the Onkyo TX-NR1009 one of their upper end units? On Amazon I saw that they still go for around $1,000.00.

[ZombieWoof]

lowest end that will do 9 channels in that model year

[Heritage_Head]

A top end avr will get you plenty loud in most systems. But getting loud and sounding as good are totally different. When running your system at around reference levels a nice amp will have an effortless sound with no strain. Avrs just can't perform at the same levels. Its science really. More is better even when your not using the more.

[Zen Traveler]

A top end avr will get you plenty loud in most systems. But getting loud and sounding as good are totally different. When running your system at around reference levels a nice amp will have an effortless sound with no strain. Avrs just can't perform at the same levels. Its science really. More is better even when your not using the more.

My AVR doesn't sound like it's straining at Reference levels and it's about having enough current to run a speaker system at the SPL one would want to listen...That's what I learned at one of the Klipsch Pilgrimages when I was talking to folks about adding an external amp but found that I would not necessarily benefit from one.

[Heritage_Head]

A top end avr will get you plenty loud in most systems. But getting loud and sounding as good are totally different. When running your system at around reference levels a nice amp will have an effortless sound with no strain. Avrs just can't perform at the same levels. Its science really. More is better even when your not using the more.

My AVR doesn't sound like it's straining at Reference levels and it's about having enough current to run a speaker system at the SPL one would want to listen...That's what I learned at one of the Klipsch Pilgrimages when I was talking to folks about adding an external amp but found that I would not necessarily benefit from one.

Your room is really small so I'm sure with 1-10 watts your probably in good shape. average size room is much bigger. Its probably more to do with the size of your room than the power of the avr. But even still a nice power amp is going to have a cleaner power supply and effortless sound. But if your happy thats all that counts.

[Youthman]

lowest end that will do 9 channels in that model year

I can say from personal experience with my previous Yamaha RX-V1800 ($1200 when it was new).....it sounded great for HT with 5.1. Adding just 2 more speakers (although it was rated at 130 x 7) was very underwhelming. I had to turn it up MUCH more and still did not get the same impact as with only a 5.1 setup. I later found out that 3rd party bench tests showed something like 130 x 2, 120 x 3, 100 x 5 and only 55 x 7. It made since as to what my ears were hearing.

Just because a receiver says it's 7.1 or even 9.1, doesn't meant it does it well. A receiver's power supply can only provide so much. Asking a receiver to power 7 speakers, much less 9 is a lot. Have you ever wondered why 5ch amps weight 85 - 100 lbs and for example, the Denon AVR-4311ci mentioned which is a 9.1 receiver weighs only 38lbs? Logic says there is definitely compromise when putting a preamp, processor and a 9 channel amp in one chasis. Not saying the Denon 4311 is not a good performer, I just agree with Reference Head, "A top end avr will get you plenty loud in
most systems. But getting loud and sounding as good are totally
different."

[Zen Traveler]

lowest end that will do 9 channels in that model year

Thanks Fastslappy--I really didn't know and thought $1,000 seemed a little much for a lower end AVR. If anyone is interested I got my AVR-4311ci at OneCall.com for $1299 and they are a Denon Authorized Dealer.

[Heritage_Head]

I love the car example i read somewhere. Two cars going 100mpr. One cars max speed is 110 and the other car is 200. The slower car will take a long time to reach 110 from 100. The faster car can get to 110 with no effort.

[willland]

If anyone is interested I got my AVR-4311ci at OneCall.com for $1299 and they are a Denon Authorized Dealer.

Which is a good deal however you can get a refurbished 4311 for $999.99.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR4311CI/DENON-AVR-4311CI-9.2-Channel-Network-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

Bill