LaScala or LaScala II

[SonicSeeker]

Significant differences or personal preference.

considering a set and was looking for some feedback

[Marvel]

Significant differences or personal preference.

considering a set and was looking for some feedback

The differences between the LS and LS II? Partly money... The LS can be had fairly inexpensively, while the LSII cannot. The LSII is primarily made of 1 inch mdf, while the original is 3/4 inch birch ply. The non resonance qualities of the mdf make the bass seem tighter according to most (I've not heard them) and even produce lower freq. The LSIIs certainly look beautiful. I would love to hear a pair in my own house to compare, but I think I will have to just keep liking what I already own. []

Bruce

[moray james]

Bruce you can install some braces and be better off than one inch mdf. Not expensive or overly difficult to implement. Best regards Moray James.

[Schu]

Just build some LSii's out of 1" birch!

oh wait, someone already did that

[SonicSeeker]

How do you go about bracing them?

[seti]

The LSII is nice. If I had the extra cash I'd go for the II. It looks so good and the bass is improved by the one inch mdf on the bass bin. Don't let mdf scare you off this isn't the mdf of the old days.

[seti]

Just build some LSii's out of 1" birch!

oh wait, someone already did that

Trey Cannon had a factory pair made of baltic birch. Not sure where they are now.

[seti]

How do you go about bracing them?

Check out the two pics here http://itishifi.blogspot.com/2010/12/pwks-lab-la-scala-with-braces.html

[neo33]

I wonder how a pair of La Scalas made out of pure aluminum would sound.

[Islander]

The La Scala IIs are very much improved over the original La Scalas. I've had my La Scalas since 2006, and they've been JubScalas since 2008. I was very happy with the sound, but not so much the appearance. When I spotted a pair of near-mint LS2s three months ago, I bought them and moved the La Scalas to surround duty, after reconnecting the HF sections.

The LS2s were moved into the Main Left and Right positions and converted to JubScala IIs. You can see a picture of the right one as my avatar. The difference between the new speakers and the old ones was really obvious. The bass goes a bit deeper and is much more full. As well, the off-axis clarity is much better. Now I can hear every word when I'm several rooms away, without the volume being excessively high. That was not possible with the original La Scalas.

The MDF is one reason they sound so good. During the prototyping process, the factory built La Scala IIs out of 1" plywood and 1" MDF and compared them directly. The MDF model sounded better, so that's what they decided to use for the production model.

The La Scala IIs also look much better in walnut lacquer than my old Birch Black originals. Compared to late-model originals, the difference may not be as obvious, but the new ones still look quite a bit better.

At 38.5" tall, La Scala IIs are 3"-4" taller than original La Scalas. This helps the apparent height of the soundstage, and makes the overall presentation sound bigger and more realistic.

As for solid aluminum La Scalas, who knows? They might be even better, but it would push the selling price high enough to limit the number of buyers.

[SonicSeeker]

Thanks for the feedback it is very helpful

[Quiet_Hollow]

As well, the off-axis clarity is much better. Now I can hear every word when I'm several rooms away, without the volume being excessively high.That was not possible with the original La Scalas.

Perhaps in your acoustic space and with your particular speaker arrangement, but I have not experienced this before with any of the original Heritage line positioned as recommended...even in highly reflective environments.

[mustang guy]

Great info Islander! Thanks.

[Islander]

As well, the off-axis clarity is much better. Now I can hear every word when I'm several rooms away, without the volume being excessively high.That was not possible with the original La Scalas.

Perhaps in your acoustic space and with your particular speaker arrangement, but I have not experienced this before with any of the original Heritage line positioned as recommended...even in highly reflective environments.

I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you find that vocals are clear several rooms away with your La Scalas? Or do you mean you have not experienced this?

I agree that the listening environment can have a big influence, but in my case the only change was the speakers, and the improvement in vocal clarity at the other end of the home, at the end of a hallway, was immediately obvious. I was a little surprised, but there it was.

To be more specific, the only change is the bass units of the new speakers, since I'm still using the Jubilee tweeters that I was using with the original model La Scalas. The La Scala II HF cabinets are in place, but they're not connected.

Since I routinely start my day by turning on the system in the living room, picking up breakfast in the kitchen, then going to the computer room to see what's new on the forum, the sound of the La Scala IIs in this circumstance is an everyday experience for me.

[mark1101]

I'm going to rock the boat a little and say that I would not get a pair of LS-II and instead would get the originals. A few reasons.

I heard LS-2s a few times and thought they sounded shrill. They didn't mate well with at least 2 or 3 amps we tried. Just sounded lousy to me. Looked great though. The engineering explanation behind all the LS-II improvements sounds great. Tighter bass, etc. In practice when you listen to them.......I was unimpressed. I just didn't think they sounded very good at all.

The original lascalas are not only much cheaper but what's on my mind is the variety of established proven mods for the originals that would certainly bring them to outperform the LS-IIs EASILY. For instance, new tractrix wooden horns that are available to replace the K-400/1 that represent an outstanding improvement. Networks galore to replace the originals for clearer, more open sound. These give the ability to tune the speaker to your listening style / habits, whether you prefer low volumes or like to really rock.

For me it would be the orignal lascalas. You can do so much with them for less. []

[Quiet_Hollow]

I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you find that vocals are clear several rooms away with your La Scalas?

This ^^^ ..and not entirely unique to just my La Scala or living arrangement either.

For example I could have them [La Scala] playing a TV show at comfortable volume in the living room only to get up and use the bathroom through the master bedroom or stroll downstairs to the front door, all whilst able to clearly discern what was being said.

This is simply my experience. [{]

I heard LS-2s a few times and thought they sounded shrill. They didn't mate well with at least 2 or 3 amps we tried.

I'd chalk that one up to the amps.

IME, the two times I've personally demo'd LSII with my own gear...if anything, they sounded laid back and a touch beefier. They are voiced to enhance their bass straight out of the box that's for sure. I can get my original AL-3's to sound almost exactly the same with EQ by shelving down everything above 120 Hz just a touch however.

Better WAF over the original in the cosmetic department though. Definitely the go-to if insisting on new. [Y]

If anything, my biggest gripe about the La Scala II is the blatant
lack of available engineering data. There is a ton of developmental info available for the original, right up until the 80's.

Part of the fulfillment of owning any Klipsch Heritage is the
associated documentation...the hard facts that can cut through any [bs].
PWK shared his findings with the owners. That's simply not there with the new stuff.

I understand that most of the original La Scala concept still applies, but there's almost no supporting data unique to the LSII itself. No polars or plots. No single-point record of why they did what they did. No "officially released" back-story. Only a smattering of hearsay floating around the web. [:^)]

[Islander]

I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you find that vocals are clear several rooms away with your La Scalas?

This ^^^ ..and not entirely unique to just my La Scala or living arrangement either.

For example I could have them [La Scala] playing a TV show at comfortable volume in the living room only to get up and use the bathroom through the master bedroom or stroll downstairs to the front door, all whilst able to clearly discern what was being said.

This is simply my experience.

Thanks for clarifying that. In my situation, the hallway is to the right of the listening room. The speakers are directed towards the centre of that room, and away from the hallway. After the dining room and kitchen, the den/computer room is at the end of the hall. All floors, except the kitchen, are carpeted.

Maybe the carpet is the factor, or maybe it's something else, but somehow the LS2s send the vocals down the hall better than the originals did. The acoustics in your home may be very different, and I'm not suggesting you're mistaken in what you're hearing or describing.

Actually, another factor is that when I'm at the other end of the hall, the receiver is usually set to 7-Channel Stereo, so all 6 (in this case) speakers are live. The left ones get the left channel, the right ones get the right channel, and the centre ones get a blend. When the originals (this is getting cumbersome. it's tempting to call them LS1s.) where the mains, the surrounds were Heresy IIs. Now that the JubScala IIs are the mains, the LS1s are the surrounds, and the left one faces down the hall, even if it's on the far side of the room.

Okay, I just tested that by switching between Straight (2-Channel Stereo) and 7-Channel Stereo. The Surround Left La Scala sends the vocals down the hall better than the Heresy II it replaced.

The unmistakeable conclusion is that La Scalas make better surround speakers than Heresy IIs. I knew that already, but didn't realize it would be obvious from the other end of my place.

The LS2 bass units do sound much better in the room than the LS1 bass units. Since I haven't used the stock HF sections in years with the LS1s, and never with the LS2s, using the Jubilee K510/K-69 tweeters instead, I can only compare the bass units, not the complete speakers.

When I listened to the LS2s in the previous owners home, I thought they sounded pretty good, and his room was well set-up, but the JubScalas that I was accustomed to sounded better in my memory. I could hear the potential, though, so I took them home and set them up as JubScala IIs, and they were a marked improvement over the JubScala Is.

[Islander]

If anything, my biggest gripe about the La Scala II is the blatant lack of available engineering data. There is a ton of developmental info available for the original, right up until the 80's.

Part of the fulfillment of owning any Klipsch Heritage is the associated documentation...the hard facts that can cut through any . PWK shared his findings with the owners. That's simply not there with the new stuff.

I understand that most of the original La Scala concept still applies, but there's almost no supporting data unique to the LSII itself. No polars or plots. No single-point record of why they did what they did. No "officially released" back-story. Only a smattering of hearsay floating around the web.

Since the La Scala II (and the current model Klipschorn) are in production now, some details about them are not available, like info about the AL-5 crossover, for example. Info about the Heresy III is also limited. A number of fans build their own clones of Heritage speakers, and at least one person has come on this forum mocking anyone who would buy new Heritage speakers, instead of buying used or building replicas. You can imagine how that goes over with Klipsch management.

In my view, Klipsch are very tolerant of discussions of modifications and home-builds of speakers that are not in current production, on this site that they provide for us at no charge. We could hardly expect them to feel the same way about the current models, the ones that are keeping them in business.

Back in 2006, when the LS2s were first released, there was information here about the design process, which was of interest and can likely be found with a search. As for more technical info like polars and plots, that data could be used to reverse engineer the speakers, so I suspect that is why they're not readily available.

[SonicSeeker]

This is the reason that was explained to me also by Bob Crites. Cant blame them at all on this point.

[boom3]

If anything, my biggest gripe about the La Scala II is the blatant lack of available engineering data. There is a ton of developmental info available for the original, right up until the 80's.

Part of the fulfillment of owning any Klipsch Heritage is the associated documentation...the hard facts that can cut through any . PWK shared his findings with the owners. That's simply not there with the new stuff.

I understand that most of the original La Scala concept still applies, but there's almost no supporting data unique to the LSII itself. No polars or plots. No single-point record of why they did what they did. No "officially released" back-story. Only a smattering of hearsay floating around the web.

Since the La Scala II (and the current model Klipschorn) are in production now, some details about them are not available, like info about the AL-5 crossover, for example. Info about the Heresy III is also limited. A number of fans build their own clones of Heritage speakers, and at least one person has come on this forum mocking anyone who would buy new Heritage speakers, instead of buying used or building replicas. You can imagine how that goes over with Klipsch management.

In my view, Klipsch are very tolerant of discussions of modifications and home-builds of speakers that are not in current production, on this site that they provide for us at no charge. We could hardly expect them to feel the same way about the current models, the ones that are keeping them in business.

Back in 2006, when the LS2s were first released, there was information here about the design process, which was of interest and can likely be found with a search. As for more technical info like polars and plots, that data could be used to reverse engineer the speakers, so I suspect that is why they're not readily available.

I partly agree with this. However, "...current models, the ones that are keeping them in business" is inoperative if we are talking about Heritage. Heritage represent a very small part of the Klipsch sales, and although I certainly don't have those sales numbers at my fingertips, it is pretty obvious that Heritage is a "halo" line that is most certainly not keepiing the company afloat.

"...could be used to reverse engineer the speakers..." also true, but if someone really wants to reverse-engineer any of the Heritage line, they are probably going to make various changes. Why buy a K-77-X tweeter if you can use a CT-125? Why use a K401/K-55-? when much better midranges are available? You can see where this is going. There is not much point in trying to create a bone-stock-clone (bone clone?) of, say, a Klipschorn when it is possible to buy a used pair on the secondary market and then modify to heart's content. Not mention the tricky woodworking, which would convince any sane [H] DIY'er to saw up some Jubilees, instead.

The real reason that Klipsch is not forthcoming about, say, the current Klipschorn crossover, is that it does not have the time or patience to answer 1000s of questions from us DIY folks, like, "Why are you using L-pads instead of autoformers?" or "Why aren't you using my favorite capacitor de jure?" No speaker company I know does. In my youth, I sent off many letters to the loudspeaker leaders of the time. Only three gentlemen answered those painfully typewritten inquries: Ray Newman at Electro-Voice, Don Keele, and PWK himself.

Utlimatly, Klipsch, like any other corporation, has policies about protecting intellectual property. It doesn't matter if a smart fellow can work out the design from published hints or looking at a buddy's system, the intellectual property still belongs to Klipsch.