Schu Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I also don't want a situation where the impression is given that the loudspeaker in its stock form isn't a good performer. I kind of walk a fine line around here. I agree dean... you do walk a very fine line and thankfully those at klipsch ALLOW us to use there site and partake in this discourse freely and without obligation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 21, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted April 21, 2014 My intent was to to sit down for an "extended" period of time to be able to listen intently and jot down some notes of what I was hearing. Snowboard Vacation, Snowboard Accident and Kidney Stone Surgery with stent plus a busy schedule with a family of 6 has prevented me from doing just that. But for those looking for more info, when I first received the crossovers, after listening to them for about 30 minutes, I called Wakejunkie on the phone and told him I did hear a difference. The first thing I immediately noticed was that they were not as bright sounding as they were previously. Honestly, I wasn't sure if I liked the new change or not. I have always enjoyed a bright sounding speaker. When I had Polk Audio, they were way too neutral for me so I would always boost the treble considerably on the AVR or EQ (when I had a 7 band EQ). When I purchased my first pair of Klipsch CF-2's, I found that I didn't need to boost the treble as they were a bright sounding speaker which my ears prefer. What I did like about the DeanG upgrade was what I have already described as hearing "less". Not sure if that is less "noise", less "background"..... the best way I can describe it is that there are less distractions in the sound.....you just simply hear the the notes, the vocals, the subtleties that we have come to love with Klipsch. That part of the upgrade I definitely liked. To me, the sound was more refined. It was just the top end that left me wanting more. This morning, after everyone had left for school and work, I had 30 minutes of complete peace and quiet where I could listen to the RF-7ii. I listened to several songs from the Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD, Lindsey Sterling (amazing violinist) and a few songs on my phone streamed through my Airport Express. I enjoyed the precision of the sound but to my ears, I still found myself desiring a tad more top end. Since I've owned the HK, I had set the treble on the HK to 0 (12:00 on the dial). This morning, I decided to bump it up just a hair to 1:00. I sat back down on the couch and replayed the same songs I had just listened to and I found myself with a sweet grin across my face. That's what it needed. At first I was hesitant to increase the treble because I thought you were "supposed" to not have to boost the bass or treble but need to leave it flat. But then I recalled all of the thread where guys talked about how every system can benefit from an EQ. Although bass and treble controls aren't necessarily an EQ, they are there for a reason.....personal taste. By increasing the treble slightly, I gained the top end crispness that my ears enjoy, and still maintained the detail and precision that the DeanG crossover offered. I decided to crank them up a bit to -15 on the receiver and at that volume, I found the treble to be very clear and crisp like I liked it but not ear piercing like the original RF-7's are. It seems like I could listen to them quite loud without my ears feeling like they were going to bleed. I can see why so many people have DeanG the original RF-7 as it seems to smooth out the top end considerably. Maybe because the RF-7ii are less bright than the RF-7's, it tamed them a bit too much for my ears. I listened to John Legend & Lindsey Sterling's "All of Me" and the piano and vocals were smooth and the violin was tender, yet detailed. What I'm hearing, I really like. I will attempt to listen to them more this week, likely each morning before work, and listen to some Norah Jones, Adelle, Newsong (cello & saxophone), Nichole Nordeman (piano) to see if I notice any other differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) not ear piercing like the original RF-7's are. I wasn't going to say this but I have to , some people confuse detail and brightness . I ran into that this morning with some new IC I bought , I thought for a minute I lost some brightness but it was a loss of detail Edited April 21, 2014 by A1UC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I like the "hearing less" comment... I understand it perfectly. as the signal becomes more focused and clear, there is less extrainious noise caused by distortion... hearing less. YM... it's not a big deal, don't feel obligated. we were all just very excited and I think most all of us realize, this modification could only be a good thing. when I did my review of the CW/Jupiter upgrade... no one gave a shyte. now, with a lack of a comprehensive review (up until now), it seemed the world was going to end. Edited April 21, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 21, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted April 21, 2014 A1UC, when I did my comparison between the RF-7, RF-7ii and RF-83's, the RF-7 were ear piercing and very fatiguing, the 83's not at all fatiguing as they were the smoothest sounding of the 3 speakers and the RF-7's were somewhere in between. Just curious, have you ever heard the 83's? If not, you might really enjoy their sound. They have a very smooth and refined sound. You can listen to them for hours, even at high volume, and not walk away feeling like you had an ice pick stuck in your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 21, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted April 21, 2014 YM... it's not a big deal, don't feel obligated. we were all just very excited and I think most all of us realize, this modification could only be a good thing. I haven't felt obligated at all. As you can see from my 11,000 + posts and my many comparison threads, I enjoy sharing what my ears hear, whether I'm comparing speakers, amps or in this case, a crossover upgrade. This community has greatly helped add to my knowledge and understanding of audio and I in turn enjoy contributing what little bit I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Keep in mind, I did a part for part replacement. No values in the crossover were changed. This wasn't a capacitor changeout done on some old beater crossovers, but done on brand new crossovers. We're constantly being told that capacitors and resistors of different types, as long as they are in good working order -- sound indistinguishable from each other. This has been "proved" using both DBT and ABX testing. Many of us have claimed from the beginning that these testing methods are flawed, so what should we conclude based on Youthman's comments? This is the kind of stuff that I find interesting, and one of the reasons I keep doing the work even though I sometimes feel like screaming. FYI, the original RF-7 gets tweaked a little to bring down a resonant peak caused by break up modes in the cones, so the effect is greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 not ear piercing like the original RF-7's are. I wasn't going to say this but I have to , some people confuse detail and brightness . I ran into that this morning with some new IC I bought , I thought for a minute I lost some brightness but it was a loss of detail Between people hearing differently and using different words to describe different things, the words aren't always helpful. I normally associate "brightness" with brash and a little harsh. There is usually some glare, and there's an edgy quality to the sound that makes me want to turn the music down. Some people are completely oblivious to it (until it's gone). There is also the good kind of "bright". There is a good degree of clarity and the sound is a little analytical in nature. But the sound should still be open and relaxed, not "shrill". If you're squinting your eyes, gritting your teeth, and reaching for the attenuator -- you're probably on the wrong side of bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) great words dean^... I always try and equate what I hear to other things in life that help ILLUSTRATE what it is I am trying to convey. therefore, for me, it always takes the form of a visual. when I say the music is more "clear" I might reference looking at a low resolution photograph versus one of much higher Pixel depth... higher resolution or more resolved, eg: LESS noise. and I wholeheartedly agree that there are two kinds of brightness in music and they are easy to distingush... One kind of brightness makes you want to turn TOWARDS the sound source, to embrace the sound... the other kind of brightness makes you want to TURN AWAY from the sound because it's painful, or annoyingly poor. Edited April 21, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWoof Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 If someone shovels my driveway for free and does a bad job. I'm definitely not going to say it was a bad job.Myself , if a bad job was done I'd tell that someone they did a bad job it being free or otherwise Mike your saying you would tell someone who did you a favor that he did a bad job? So you wake up one morning and the neighbor shoveled out part of your driveway. But he did a bad job and you had to do 75% of it over. You would tell him he did a bad job? I couldn't do it no way I would thank him for his effort & then I would polity ask he not do it again , explaining why . If Dean were to make me a XO & I didn't like the work , I feel it's best to tell him . So if he charged me OR gave it to me free that would have no bearing on how I feel , I feel it is my obligation that he knows I was not happy with the XO & then explain my reasoning to Dean in hopes that a solution could be found . I handle all my interactions this way with everyone (only exception being the mother-in-law's cooking ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 not ear piercing like the original RF-7's are. I wasn't going to say this but I have to , some people confuse detail and brightness . I ran into that this morning with some new IC I bought , I thought for a minute I lost some brightness but it was a loss of detail Between people hearing differently and using different words to describe different things, the words aren't always helpful. I normally associate "brightness" with brash and a little harsh. There is usually some glare, and there's an edgy quality to the sound that makes me want to turn the music down. Some people are completely oblivious to it (until it's gone). There is also the good kind of "bright". There is a good degree of clarity and the sound is a little analytical in nature. But the sound should still be open and relaxed, not "shrill". If you're squinting your eyes, gritting your teeth, and reaching for the attenuator -- you're probably on the wrong side of bright. "shrill". sounds like a good word bright = shrill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) If someone shovels my driveway for free and does a bad job. I'm definitely not going to say it was a bad job.Myself , if a bad job was done I'd tell that someone they did a bad job it being free or otherwiseMike your saying you would tell someone who did you a favor that he did a bad job? So you wake up one morning and the neighbor shoveled out part of your driveway. But he did a bad job and you had to do 75% of it over. You would tell him he did a bad job? I couldn't do it no way I would thank him for his effort & then I would polity ask he not do it again , explaining why . If Dean were to make me a XO & I didn't like the work , I feel it's best to tell him . So if he charged me OR gave it to me free that would have no bearing on how I feel , I feel it is my obligation that he knows I was not happy with the XO & then explain my reasoning to Dean in hopes that a solution could be found . I handle all my interactions this way with everyone (only exception being the mother-in-law's cooking ) And I thought I was too direct for my own good sometimes Edited April 21, 2014 by reference_head 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWoof Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 And I thought I was too direct for my own good sometimes I'm prone Not to beat around the bush I guess , I've always felt it's best for everyone involved by being direct & honest . I try hard to be polite but direct up front . saves a wad of grief down the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I know how to shovel a driveway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've never been accused of being bright. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) If I'm the only one who sees the elephant in the room it wouldn't be the first time. But based on some of the comments i have read i don't think i am. This is what i meant about me being too direct and getting myself in trouble. Edited April 21, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sometimes the popular opinion is the right one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think its easy to get in trouble in the Klipsch forum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You're not being "direct" if you're being vague. So what's the elephant in the room? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's been an interesting Monday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.