Cable Myths Continued

[oldtimer]

I suppose before the fact that would be speculative. Personally, my phone is ringing off the hook by people clamoring for more movie reviews.

[Don Richard]

Exactly as I assumed. You match the specs you want, with the appearance you like, and that's it. Hey, you and almost everyone in this Forum share that means of selecting their gear. You're the model objectivist. Nothing wrong with that. Thanks for confirming. So now let me ask you this. Why do you care if others use subjective means - like listening - to select their gear? What's your axe to grind here? We now understand you don't use subjective means, and I have said a dozen times that cables are about subjective difference, so now what:?

Boy, you subjectivists sure are short on reading comprehension skills.

I research the technical aspects of the equipment that I am interested in buying, then go to a store to examine it in person.

Is what I wrote. With audio equipment, part of the examination is a listening test. Audio = sound, doh.

[oldtimer]

Just as Don said, oops, and then he posts what I was going to say he said.

[oldtimer]

Examination can mean many things. It's not Don's writing at fault it's the english language. Ever heard of a written exam, an oral exam, how about an aural exam? All examinations.

[oldtimer]

Just as Don said, oops, and then he posts what I was going to say he said.

So, are you functioning as Don's editor too? Should I respond to Don, or wait for you to explain what he really meant?

LOL so now my subjective interpretation of another's writing is invalid?

[oldtimer]

And to think this time I had that .01% nailed.

[Mallette]

Although I asked specifically about novels and poetry

What? You never heard of "Horton" and the great poetry of Mother Goose?

Gets no better...appreciated my millions.

Dave

Edited February 7, 2014 by Mallette

[oldtimer]

Next up is a recent effort at brain damage. This time it's from Canada and went straight to dvd like a bullet (maybe one of those wooden ones that work so well against vampires in the film).

The Last Sect was made in 2006 and filmed in Hamilton Canada, which our own bob calls the armpit of Canada. David Carradine plays (who else) Van Helsing, and the opening scene features him playing a flute, a not so subtle reminder that he was the star of the 70's tv series Kung Fu. Basically this is a film about hottie vampires, some of the lesser ones cast as "vampettes," who use their own internet dating service to lure their victims in for the feast. But wait, theres more to this thin plot line. They have to "regenerate" by sleeping for 25 years every millenium and guess what time it is? To do this they need a female keeper to recruit, in this case a hottie magazine writer.

There's the obligatory girl on girl make outs, but nothing that gets more than a tv14 rating, otherwise it might have been good. We also learn that Van Helsing does Tai Chi, and that vampettes wear wal-mart quality lingerie, something for which the writer later apologised. All this set to a chick indie rock soundtrack of no special mention. The few attempts at stylishness fail miserably, as if instead of a low budget they were on a college project budget.

I have to give them credit for stretching a razor thin plot into a full length movie, but that's been done before (see anything by Spielberg).

memorable quote: "They're like ravenous vampire sluts what's not to like?"

Also the best line of the movie...

The general gives it a 3.5 on the 5 point intolerance scale, it should be a little higher but the babes are delightful. Check it out.

[Mallette]

Well, I answered.

So, Kierkegaard. Subjectivist or Objectivist? Are you with Lemke or Camus?

Every bit as relevant (as it were) as Horton..

Dave

Edited February 7, 2014 by Mallette

[oldtimer]

So subjectively, his words are worth less than yours because you have no experience of it. No matter, you asked for self-speakers, so here goes:

Diabolik. Don't pronounce it Dye-a-bo-lik, its Dee-a-bo-lik.
This 1968 film produced by DeLaurentis is a cult classic waiting to happen. It's a psych movie with a psych soundtrack (by Ennio Morricone) that will take you back and deep into your mind baby yeah!
The first 20 minutes are well worth the price of admission, and rival most Bond movies. Sadly, the soundtrack is not available in any quality form.
The cars alone in this film are beautiful, from the citroen to the his and her black and white jag e-type coupes driven by the anti-hero and his babe.
The opening credits feature a spinning psychedelic backdrop.
The Carbinieri (Italian police) have naziesque uniforms.
The babe is played by Marisa Mell and in her ultra mini dress outfits she will have you creaming your jeans several times throughout the film. Shagedelic baby yeah!
The anti hero has a hollowed out mountain lair that barbarella would feel at home in. Don't miss the animated composite police sketch scene.
This film has sex in a pile of cash, emeralds in cleavage, mini dresses and backseamed hose outfits, over the top spy paraphenalia and a psychedelic underground lair.
Memorable quote: "Is that stud...coming?"
The general really likes this one, giving it 1.5 stars out of 5 (5 being intolerable).
Check it out.

[Mallette]

So subjectively, his words are worth less than yours because you have no experience of it. No matter, you asked for self-speakers, so here goes:

Diabolik. Don't pronounce it Dye-a-bo-lik, its Dee-a-bo-lik.

This 1968 film produced by DeLaurentis is a cult classic waiting to happen. It's a psych movie with a psych soundtrack (by Ennio Morricone) that will take you back and deep into your mind baby yeah!

The first 20 minutes are well worth the price of admission, and rival most Bond movies. Sadly, the soundtrack is not available in any quality form.

The cars alone in this film are beautiful, from the citroen to the his and her black and white jag e-type coupes driven by the anti-hero and his babe.

The opening credits feature a spinning psychedelic backdrop.

The Carbinieri (Italian police) have naziesque uniforms.

The babe is played by Marisa Mell and in her ultra mini dress outfits she will have you creaming your jeans several times throughout the film. Shagedelic baby yeah!

The anti hero has a hollowed out mountain lair that barbarella would feel at home in. Don't miss the animated composite police sketch scene.

This film has sex in a pile of cash, emeralds in cleavage, mini dresses and backseamed hose outfits, over the top spy paraphenalia and a psychedelic underground lair.

Memorable quote: "Is that stud...coming?"

The general really likes this one, giving it 1.5 stars out of 5 (5 being intolerable).

Check it out.

I LIKE it!

Dave

[Deang]

lol, yeah, pretty much.

Ski Bum, yeah, I get it -- but again, what does it have to do with what we're talking about?

It's relevant because it made a point I agree with one that just happens to be true.

Specifically, the point was that a playback system is a reductive exercise to access the art, not the art itself (unless it is by virtue of being it's own visual art). It's the false attribution of artistic qualities to passive things like speaker wire where the confusion lies. I have yet to see any supporting evidence of how speaker cables would create a more compelling soundstage or liquidity, for example. Yet all of Mark's arguments assume this is the case, and roll with it. It's called 'begging the question' and it's a logical fallacy.

There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. People are now dragging things into the discussion that had no previous context. At what point did the look of a thing become relevent to this discussion? As for the first part of the above, you're just stating the obvious, and we all know this already. You've created a straw man, no one is even discussing that. As for the latter, you guys are being deliberately obtuse. I presented proof that wire changes the sound, we are only saying that the changes are both audible and can be described using words. Mark's analogies are brilliant, and watching you guys redirect, misdirect, deflect, and whatever the hell else you're doing is pretty pathetic.

Edited February 7, 2014 by DeanG

[Mallette]

Mark's analogies are brilliant,

Even blinding...

Dave

[Ski Bum]

Is there anyone left here who selects their audio gear based on a list of subjective criteria, or aspects of sound?

I use single ended tube amps purely because of subjective preference, at least when I'm in the mood for that sort of thing. That qualifies, doesn't it? Just to qualify that, I suppose I still view such devices not so much as "amps" but rather "sound processors that amplify a little bit", but my power needs are low, and my perception of the "process" is improved realism. You happy?

[oldtimer]

lol, yeah, pretty much.

Ski Bum, yeah, I get it -- but again, what does it have to do with what we're talking about?

It's relevant because it made a point I agree with one that just happens to be true.

Specifically, the point was that a playback system is a reductive exercise to access the art, not the art itself (unless it is by virtue of being it's own visual art). It's the false attribution of artistic qualities to passive things like speaker wire where the confusion lies. I have yet to see any supporting evidence of how speaker cables would create a more compelling soundstage or liquidity, for example. Yet all of Mark's arguments assume this is the case, and roll with it. It's called 'begging the question' and it's a logical fallacy.

There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. People are now dragging things into the discussion that had no previous context. At what point did the look of a thing become relevent to this discussion? As for the first part of the above, you're just stating the obvious, and we all know this already. You've created a straw man, no one is even discussing that. As for the latter, you guys are being deliberately obtuse. I presented proof that wire changes the sound, we are only saying that the changes are both audible and can be described using words. Mark's analogies are brilliant, and watching you guys redirect, misdirect, deflect, and whatever the hell else you're doing is pretty pathetic.

Conversations evolve Dean. Are you one of those pedants who insist that threads stay exactly on original topic? It's about subjectivity now. Every movie is different. Every cable is different. Everyone has their own opinions, Some don't care about those opinions because the subject doesn't interest them re: Mark and Chick Corea or Yes. Pathetic? Golly gee and gosh that's your subjective opinion.

[Mallette]

It's your claim that it is relevant, so the burden is on you to show how

You re-directed this thread into your own ideas about what is "subjective" and what is "objective."

These conflict with most. Camus vs. Lemke on Kierkegaard is a well know debate on the same concept. It MIGHT help me to know whether you are more in tune with Camus or Lemke on this.

Then again, maybe not.

Anyway, I use NOTHING but subjective criteria to judge equipment. I send it to Craig when I need an objective view, but only when it fails the subjective test and I don't like it anymore. When he's done with it, I like it again.

Dave

[DrWho]

How about you, Dave. Have you ever read a book of poetry, a novel, or a critique of either?

Dave? How about it?

I have...I don't understand how it pertains to cables and speaker wire. In this analogy wouldn't it be like critiquing the paper these opinions were written on?

I have some friends that are way crazy into literary art.....and they absolutely care about the "quality of the paper" because they have found that it affects the way in which they receive the words on the page....even though it's the same words.

I definitely think there is a level of that in the audiophile community.

I might lightly argue that a truly enlightened individual could appreciate the words on the page regardless of the medium on which they're printed.....but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if that's really experience art to its fullest extent. There's no shortage of science showing that our expectations affect our perceptions....the entire marketing world is built off this phenomenon.

[oldtimer]

I get that we stopped talking about cables a long time ago.

[oldtimer]

How about you, Dave. Have you ever read a book of poetry, a novel, or a critique of either?

Dave? How about it?

I have...I don't understand how it pertains to cables and speaker wire. In this analogy wouldn't it be like critiquing the paper these opinions were written on?

I have some friends that are way crazy into literary art.....and they absolutely care about the "quality of the paper" because they have found that it affects the way in which they receive the words on the page....even though it's the same words.

I definitely think there is a level of that in the audiophile community.

I might lightly argue that a truly enlightened individual could appreciate the words on the page regardless of the medium on which they're printed.....but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if that's really experience art to its fullest extent. There's no shortage of science showing that our expectations affect our perceptions....the entire marketing world is built off this phenomenon.

There you go DR.! What is marketing but creating good BS in order to sell something?

[DrWho]

How about you, Dave. Have you ever read a book of poetry, a novel, or a critique of either?

Dave? How about it?

I have...I don't understand how it pertains to cables and speaker wire. In this analogy wouldn't it be like critiquing the paper these opinions were written on?

I have some friends that are way crazy into literary art.....and they absolutely care about the "quality of the paper" because they have found that it affects the way in which they receive the words on the page....even though it's the same words.

I definitely think there is a level of that in the audiophile community.

I might lightly argue that a truly enlightened individual could appreciate the words on the page regardless of the medium on which they're printed.....but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if that's really experience art to its fullest extent. There's no shortage of science showing that our expectations affect our perceptions....the entire marketing world is built off this phenomenon.

There you go DR.! What is marketing but creating good BS in order to sell something?

But is it really BS if it truly improves their experience of the product?

Edit - and this is a genuine question...I haven't made up my mind on it.

Edited February 7, 2014 by DrWho