Economy- about to really hit the fan?

[forresthump2]

"But now, already, the term is just political fodder and fading into the scrap

heap with the "War on Drugs", "War on Poverty" and the "Thousand Points of Light".

Who's Tom Ridge?"

This is the biggest hope of the Liberals. That people forget 9/11 and soon. They're rabid about W's high approval rating because of it. Again Party and Self-Righteouness are what drives the true Libby, not love of country or patriotism.

The Big liberal media shows the gore of foreigners killed by our bombs, but never shown anything as near explicit for 9/11. Privacy of the families. Ha! What about the families of foreigners.

The liberals want to make it look like the planes flew themselves into the buildings. They want it to be like any other natural disaster. Soon to fade from memory and we're back into their complacent land of camelot where the king tells the people what they need and what they want.

I implore you to watch the mainstream media with a close eye. Watch how they accentuate certain things. What's in bold, headlines What stories they cling to. Listen to their wording and Think about how it could have been worded different. When you start analyzing the reporting then you will see how they attempt to dupe you. And the liberals complain about Big Business. But Everybody hears the "news".

MD certainly not a liberal. He's a Radical Liberal who

wants everybody to vote Democrat because that's the only chance he has. He's an opportunist too. That's why he's putting all this effort in this short time of opportunity.

He'll never cut a check for all his wealth to the poor and hungry. He's got it so now he only wants everybody else to pay. Probably getting all his income tax free

now too. LOL

But poor MD is only one vote. That must be frustrating

because he knows right here his vote is nullified. MD as soon as you write the big check yo the poor I'll go along with your policies of raising my income taxes and prices. LOL If the Democrats ever start to lean even slightly in your direction, well see what happened to congress in '94 and to the presidency in 2000. MUHAHAHA Must be frustrating, but isnt this a Great country? HUMMMPA HUMMMPA

But you can't help it. I'm sure you've been brainwashed since birth. And thanks for proving my point that companies have an incentive without Gov to pay more. It called productivity. You're living proof right? Don't expect you to address my other points against your false assumptions on tariffs. My points obvious made too much common sense.

Why don't you go after Gov Spending 1st, Porky? Funny

how a Liberal's 1st operandi is for Higher taxes, More Gov Regulation and More taxes. So pathetic.

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[T2K]

Larry,

I'm tired of hearing your opinion of unions.

Keith

[Mikekid]

Why don't you people get out of the house and go fishing for Christ's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mikekid]

And one more thing....I am sure the hard working folks at Klipsch who created this BB really appreciate this crap. Using what they hoped would be for and about electonics and speakers and instead RAMBLING on about topics that have nothing to do with anything here.

Why don't the few of you trade phone ## or email addresses and quit wizzing on this bulletin board! Maybe I missed the "GENERAL OPINION" section somewhere!

They are like a--holes...everyone has one..........

I am really surprised the Webmaster hasn't lost it yet!!!!!!!!!

GOOD GOD.....GO AWAY!

[T2K]

My sentiments exactly Mikekid! This Larry twirp is an agitator and hasn't contributed anything audio, that I've read. I wish he'd 'multitask' somewhere else. He's a commy.

Keith

[fini]

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/07/09/tomo/index.html

fini

[cluless]

I don't think any one will look for me here. Maybe I'll be safe for a little while.

[lne937s]

My opinion on unions is not just based on the fact that they inflate wages, but that they also reduce productivity. Higher wages are justifiable with higher productivity. For an example of a profitable company with higher wages, look here:

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/index_home.shtml?s10&/e/sniffer.html&

Historical links between unions and communists are not opinion but documented fact. Currently, unions are becoming more and more conservative as their negotiations move them into higher tax brackets.

Let's curb the personal attacks- we aren't in elementary school anymore.

Larry

[forresthump2]

Inflation is too much money chasing too Few goods and services. Unions create more money in the system without a accompanying efficiency gains IE less productivity. IE Union Guys get paid more then sit on there butts more and say HAHA i beat the man and MD smiles.

Higher wages also artificially raise the cost of what we buy because the companies expecting certain profit margins raise prices to us to pay the deadbeats. If their competitors dont have union, then companies go out of business and union workers cry and still sit on their butts and get money from us again - Our Tax Money.

When I Hear MD talk politic on any point I hear, "I want the GOV to take more money out of your pockets and give it to others Though they don't earn it". "I want you all to vote Democrat because that's the best chance I have that my idiotic ideas have some tiny chance because the commie party will never get elected. They don't have Gus Hall anymore. He was "our" only chance.

I'm from the left coast and everything sucks out there as much as here. Vote Democrat. Al Sore and Hilly for King and Queen. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH."

hee-hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[lne937s]

to be fair-

Inflated corporate executive salaries do the same thing. Anyone who has negotiated a position where his/her salary is not respondant to free market competition is guilty of the same- whether that be through monopoly, patronage, unions, nepotism, etc.

[T2K]

"My opinion on unions is not just based on the fact that they inflate wages, but that they also reduce productivity. Higher wages are justifiable with higher productivity.

Let's curb the personal attacks- we aren't in elementary school anymore.

Larry"

Larry, why not produce some hard evidence supporting your claims. I've worked for a large corporation for 25 years that has recently reduced the actual work force in excess of 50% while productivity increases. That is why the 'Agreement Employees' are paid more than the employees such as yourself that sit on their asses in an air conditioned office and stress themselves out while mutitasking on a computer and actually producing nothing. <insert your higher wages statement here>

Your repeated broad categoric criticism of Union Workers are taken personally by myself and all Union workers. You would be wise to keep you opinions to yourself while in public.

Keith

[forresthump2]

No you dont have to create new money to have inflation. Inflation in the end is higher prices. Inflation is caused by supply side (higher costs) called "cost-push" OR from the demand side (too many dollars chasing too few goods), termed "demand-pull" IE too high wages. So MD misses the mark and writes it off as politics, of course from on GOP side (Typical Lib).

So you see MD is wrong again and tries to spin it. You dont have to raise the money supply to get inflation. Too high wages raise the money velocity. You then have too many dollars chasing too few goods and services. And because you artificially raise wages without getting more production from it you have relative too few goods. tee-hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 07-31-2002 at 12:43 AM

[forresthump2]

The recession began 3/01, days after W took office. i.e., a Slick Willy recession.

& while the recession was worse, the rebound that started in the last three months

of 2001 was stronger. The economy grew at a 2.7 percent annual pace from

October to December, a percentage point faster than the initial estimates.

Obviously the tax cuts in action Baby. MUHAHA

So we have a Slick recession & a W-led recovery.

Tax cuts are here to stay. And MD and the Libbies Tax Hikes are toast. Now if the Libbies would look first to cut this ridiculous GOV spending. Dont ever expect that to happen. BIG GOV spending and TAX Hikes is what the Libbies/Commies want. The proof is in MD's putrid puddin.

Need anymore Macro lessens MD? HAHAHA

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[T2K]

The current recession can be summed up in one word: 'CONFIDENCE'. That is why the economy went to hell soon after the election. No one has any 'CONFIDENCE' in this clown.

The apple doesn't fall far from the bush.

Keith

[anarchist]

Let me see. No inflation as a result of ballplayers salaries?

Those salaries -which I find hugely ridiculous although I wouldn't mind making that much - have to be paid by the revenues received by the club. That means higher ticket prices and higher costs to the networks. That means higher costs for cable and satellite consumers. That means higher costs for advertisers on cable, satellite, and broadcast stations. That means higher costs for the products they hawk. That ultimately means Joe Sixpack can no longer take his family of four to the games because he can't afford the tickets, he can't afford the hotdogs, he can't afford the soft drink, and he damn sure can't afford a tailgate party. Given Joe's wages remained the same because his company's profits have been squeezed by all of the above, I suggest Joe would be pretty freakin stupid for applauding the increase in the ballplayers salaries - unless Joe's son was a star athlete expected to sign a contract.

You want to raise the standard of living. Great idea. Unfortunately, your approach is the polar opposite of effective. Lower costs. Let Joe keep more of the money he makes so he can afford all those things that make a good 'standard of living.'

It amazes me the materialism our society instills in us now days. America has become one big consumer with little understand of what 'quality of life' actually means. Every holiday has turned into some major shopping spree. Christmas shopping starts before Thanksgiving. Europeans may not have the "freedom of the greatest country in the world" but they appear to understand far more about enjoying life than the ad-deluged, consumption-crazed, debt-ridden, instant gratification American public.

A quote if you will works here and I will send a dollar to the first person who can tell me the author.

quote:

---

In modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one's physical needs. It is enough to go through a training program to acquire some petty technical skill, then come to work on time and exert very modest effort needed to hold a job. The only requirements are a moderate amount of intelligence, and most of all, simple OBEDIENCE. If one has those, society takes care of one from cradle to grave. (Yes, there is an underclass that cannot take physical necessities for granted, but we are speaking here of mainstream society.) Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include... climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities.

---

That last bit is a slap at leftists but the author didn't particularly like them.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[Clipped and Shorn]

Soundz like Unibomber-Ted Kozinsky speak to me. You can put the $ in my Paypal account. Tnx.

-C&S

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Cornwalls

currently upgrading

to all tube components

This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 07-31-2002 at 08:13 PM

[T2K]

Ross Perot.

Keith

[TBrennan]

I think most arguements against Unions are based on emotion not economics. The economic issue only really matters to owners who have to deal with Unions, guys who have to actually fork out the dough and share their power. To many other people it's an over-reaction to the shame they feel, shame for not having the balls to stand-up. So they attack the guy who DOES stand-up hoping that if he's discredited their own shame will be assuaged. Or shame at their own lack of success in the world. IME these people are often low-level White-Collar workers with bad educations from mediocre cow-colleges. They've gone as far as their talents can take them and can only look forward to a life of Dilbertism and nights out at Chile's, waiting in line like a Rube to get seated at a chain restaurant; a dismal prospect indeed for one who'd once hoped to be a Master of The Universe. You don't build yourself up by knocking the other guy down but if you CAN'T build yourself up knocking the other guy seems to do for some folks.

I'm not keen on talking politics here and tried to stay away but I gotta say something. But this is all I have to say, I've made my arguements. Either you agree or are evil and perverse and probably going to Hell. Note that Mdeneen and I are generally in agreement politically and also our Altecs sound SO MUCH better than the bull-horn drivered Klipsches you other guys listen to. Let's argue speakers. Klipsch are better than no horns at all, I'll grant that. Let's go.

[forresthump2]

MD quotes: ""While average weekly wages (in CURRENT DOLLARS) has tripled since 1970, the

following table illustrates that when inflation is accounted for, real earnings IN

CONSTANT DOLLARS have decreased steadily over the past two decades. Weekly

wages have fallen 10%. Thus, even though 1998 paychecks have more zeroes on the

end, they don't go as far as a 1970 paycheck to cover living expenses." source: US

Labor Bureau"

Take away the inflationary Carter years and this Would not hold true. All you do here is make a case to keep inflation under wraps, NOT artificially raise wages or tax more. HAHAHA Nobody can prove whether higher wages raise inflation or whether higher inflation causes higher wages. But we know higher wages don't decrease inflation unless there is more output to offset them.

So the big question is do unions increase output to jusify their higher pay. Anybody that knows union workers know that their goal is the opposite. Extort more pay for less work and education. The only way unions will survive is to behave less like commies.

More spin too. Higher prices do raise the money supply. Higher prices cause more demand on M1. More demand creates more quantity demand of demand deposits.

So here MD wants profit controls put on the companies.

You can charge higher prices but you have to pass X amount on in higher wages. LOL

Inflation is higher prices plain & simple. As I said it can happen on both sides demand and supply. What price and wage controls and unions do is throw market efficiency out the door, which only results in more harm and more unemployed.

I can see why MD hate globalism because it is a free market correcting itself around Government controls, taxes and Unions. When the consumer is offered the same quality product, he buys that which costs less. Simple fact is unions raise company costs and naturally companies and consumers will adapt accordingly to market forces. Unless that is MD's evil policies become law.

IOW, unions are on their way out because we have a flexible adapting free market, Despite the Gov and unions. And guess who's a big supporter of democrats.

Raise tariffs then we have retaliation and less market for our exports. Jobs lost.

It is a simple case of freedom. Controls in tariffs will spiral out of control like will inflation. Liberals have to accept that money isn't everything and let the jealousy stop. I say the GOV have a special tax of half of MDs vast wealth and give it to the poor. Hell MD give all your money to the "poor" before you spout your absurdities here.

Whatever your action plan is. All I see is a heap of socialist idealology. Liberals have a lot of that and no practicality or common sense. LOL

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[forresthump2]

STB the king of jealousy. Must have a chip on his shoulder because he the one that keeps bringing up the damn unions all around here. When i want to sweat i go play squash. He has to crawl in filth and sweat for his extortion of a living. Then always knowing that he gets paid more by extorting money out of our pockets. Has to make up some lame excuse that union workers are better trained. MUHAHAHA

I hear STB in high school, "Why you idiots going to get more education and better yourself?"

Well now he realize that unions because of freedom are on their way out. The system adapts and now they must adapt to freedom. The commie liberals are crying murder as the biggest social con ever goes down the tubes with technology and globalism. Unions are becoming associations. They are the ones that are changing. Free markets never will and you can't change what people know is the greatest thing. Freedom.

Now union workers are seeing a decline in real income because the market and society is correcting it, as should be done to extortion. MUHAHAHA

Altec and JBL are overpriced. They suck more than they put out. Klipsch is nonunion and that's why the troll STB Truely doesnt care for klipsch. Because they dont have high prices from high union pay. There's a case studu for Ya. LOL

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Go Forth and Hump the World