Hornmiester Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Sorry for a stupid question, but how do I know when my Heresys need to have the crossovers rebuilt? I bought a set of 1983 Heresys a few months back. They sound pretty nice and are in pristine physica shape, but they also sound a little bit bright. This may be just be the nature of the speaker...I really do not know. What do I listen for? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornmiester Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Did not mean to post this twice. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Sorry for a stupid question, but how do I know when my Heresys need to have the crossovers rebuilt? I bought a set of 1983 Heresys a few months back. They sound pretty nice and are in pristine physica shape, but they also sound a little bit bright. This may be just be the nature of the speaker...I really do not know. What do I listen for? Thanks I've heard that caps tend to last about 20 years, but I also heard it depends on the type of cap. Heresys are a little bright, but that may depend on the type of crossover. That is being discussed right now on a different thread on the Kipsch forum called something like "H-700, the sound." I believe that Heresys were also called H-700 for a while, but I'm not sure. Yours are newer, but they discuss types of crossovers on the thread. Was "C" the good one? Take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Are you using them with a subwoofer? The reason I ask is that a sub tends to even the brightness out on Heresy's. They do a great job at reproducing sounds, all of them, and the only thing missing is the stuff below 60 or so Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornmiester Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Are you using them with a subwoofer? The reason I ask is that a sub tends to even the brightness out on Heresy's. They do a great job at reproducing sounds, all of them, and the only thing missing is the stuff below 60 or so Hz. No, I do not have a subwoofer. I was primarily asking because everyone seems to say that at this age you need new crossovers. BTW...YOU ONLY NEED 2 MORE POSTS TO HIT 4,000!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 A set of Bob Crites caps won't hurt a bit. In fact, they will restore the combined output region of the drivers, and put the proper frequencies in the proper drivers. It will sound better, but I'm not so sure less bright would be a phrase to describe it. My next post will be 4K. Thanks for the head's up...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Sorry for a stupid question, but how do I know when my Heresys need to have the crossovers rebuilt? I bought a set of 1983 Heresys a few months back. They sound pretty nice and are in pristine physica shape, but they also sound a little bit bright. This may be just be the nature of the speaker...I really do not know. What do I listen for? Thanks I don't think there is a clear definition as to "when" an XO needs replacement short of a failure. here is one thing you may want to consider... even when the original XO's were new, our modern XO's with the customization's availble to you are going to offer up a much better listening experience. you can expect increased resolution, a cleaner more spatial sound in terms of instrument seperation and a less harsh/shouty quality to the midrange (if you atenuate that area in your new XO) thankfully, I've never heard a heritage speaker sound worse when adding a modern well built/deigned XO... therefore your speakers can only sound better if you do it. in the grand scheme of things on my own journey... the Aletheia audio XO was the single biggest/best upgrade I have ever come across. Edited April 28, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Sorry for a stupid question, but how do I know when my Heresys need to have the crossovers rebuilt? I bought a set of 1983 Heresys a few months back. They sound pretty nice and are in pristine physica shape, but they also sound a little bit bright. This may be just be the nature of the speaker...I really do not know. What do I listen for? Thanks the Aletheia audio XO was the single biggest/best upgrade I have ever come across. and i did it on 2 of my sets with Dean's ALK's but to answer your question, no you don't need to getem rebuilt but everybody here does at one time or another. Edited April 28, 2014 by Budman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I just have to post here lol as said 20 years is the deadline although i have found some last a bit longer...20 yrs without properly checking is a great point in time to replace or update... Once i believe i need new crossovers i get them updated or replaced.. If they are poor sounding you can also go with an active crossover...use an eq to bring life to them or yes replace which is the best in near all applications.. Call Bob Crites or get ahold of Dean! Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) No, you do not NEED new crossovers. At worst, you would need new capacitors. Heresies are intentionally bright, some think very bright. The squawker and tweeter in H1s are 3 and 4 dB hotter than the woofer. Because of that, I changed mine and have a schematic showing the change. Yours may be what we once called H1.5s, because thay have H2 squawkers and a little different crossover network. Which network do they have? Which drivers do they have? If a speaker has been used regularly over the years, the caps seem to survive for many decades. If not, the caps seem to degrade and make the sound duller in about 25 years. It would not hurt to replace yours, even if they don't need it. Edited April 30, 2014 by John Albright 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) +1 on the caps . . . rebuilding a crossover is NOT what I would recommend first, nor buying all new crossovers. Bob Crites sells a solid kit for for simply replacing the crossover caps . . . not hard at all. I have yet to run into a functioning vintage Heritage speaker that REQUIRED out of the gate an entire crossover rebuild . . . but most of mine just needed new caps and I was off to the races. Since they are new to you, I recommend to only replace the caps to renew the crossover, and then listen to them for a while before putting new crossovers in. You need to know what you are not hearing before deciding major tweaks. After simple cap replacement, I found myself quite content with both pair of Heresys, as well as my K-horns, et. al. Learn first. The most bang for the buck (+ or - around $50 for a pair of Heresys) until you want to to do major tweaks, is bring them back into original specs with a simple cap refresh . . . How do they sound now? If they are working well, a simple caps refresh will position you to hear them back into stock and back within spec. Can you take the back off of one and snap a pic and post it? Even good looking old caps degrade. The first thing I always do when buying older speakers is to look at the caps to make sure one is not leaking. And, if they are old, I change them out anyway since I plan to keep them and listen to them for years. There are so many knowledgeable forum members who will help. Edited April 30, 2014 by Rhetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Hi John, You say he doesn't need new crossovers, but then admit the Heresy is out of balance, and therefore can benefit from a network design change. Now, by the time this change is fully implemented, only two of the original parts remain, so why not go all the way? The new autotransformers are much better in build quality, and loose windings are not conducive to good performance. One could even say that the imbalance is simply because PWK designed them to be placed on the floor, and in a corner -- so place them correctly and you don't have to do anything! Rhetor, I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, but how many different capacitor types or crossover designs have you been exposed to? I believe you were on the Roadshow list, but then backed out? Are you aware that out of the almost 30 people that took advantage of that offer, all but four purchased the design? Now, I only say this because none of those people NEEDED new crossovers either. In fact, most of them were already using crossovers that had either been recapped or replaced. Out of those remaining, a few put themselves into a holding pattern because it was close to Christmas, while two went with my Jensen paper in oil builds. The old capacitors are in need of attention, and they are the only parts that must be replaced. 20 years for electrolytics, and 30 years for any other type of unprotected capacitor is a good rule. If the household budget is really tight, then sure, you can get it done with a handful of entry level metallized polypropylenes, but I think it's a mistake to think or believe that this gets within a light year of a full blown restoration with Jensen or Jupiter capacitors, or a design like the SuperX or Universal. A person is probably only going to address the crossover once after they get the loudspeaker. Is there some solid reasoning somewhere that I'm not aware of that supports the idea of spending the least amount of money possible on a component that plays such a substantial role in determining the sonic signature of the loudspeaker? So, full disclosure here in the event the OP doesn't know, but yes, I build and sell crossovers. But the reason for doing this is because as the hobbyist, I discovered the monumental improvement that better sounding parts and new designs brought to my listening experience. Isn't that what this is supposed to be about? Since the speakers are 30 years old, and you're probably only going to do this once, why not make them really sing? Edited May 1, 2014 by DeanG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornmiester Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Thank you all for your advice. Based on all the comments, I think it is worth getting them rebuilt as it has been 30 years and I plan on keeping them for a while. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No, you do not NEED new crossovers. At worst, you would need new capacitors. Heresies are intentionally bright, some think very bright. The squawker and tweeter in H1s are 3 and 4 dB hotter than the woofer. Because of that, I changed mine and have a schematic showing the change. Yours may be what we once called H1.5s, because thay have H2 squawkers and a little different crossover network. Which network do they have? Which drivers do they have? Are the Heresy IIs intentionally bright, as well? Why do you think Klipsch set the squawker and tweeter in the H1 3 or 4 dB hot? How about other Heritage? Are the Klipschorn, La Scala and Belle set to be bright? With all of my Heritage, some CDs sound a little too bright, some way too bright, and some just right. SACDs seem to be more uniformly balanced, and Blu-rays of newer movies almost always sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 As I said, the speaker was designed to be a floorstander, and to be placed in a corner. This brings the bass up in perfect balance with the mids and highs. I would imagine the HII to be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtrp Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I put new caps on a pair of '85 heresy. It brightened up the sound even more. I think they sound fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I think Dean's logic above is well balanced and perfectly stated not because of some macabre sales pitch, but because it's the truth. the difference between an original XO, a rebuilt XO and a redesigned XO using quality parts is really very significant and should not be understated. price sensitivity is always a concern as a user, and I always get the proverbial "my speakers cost 300$, and you want to buy a $350 cross over?"... my answer is absolutely, do not walk, RUN! Edited May 1, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 So who should we believe, those who claim they're too bright and bleeding their ears out or those who say they're fine just the way they are? I've always said that this whole business is very personalized, or user specific. Some people email me and know exactly what they want, while others feel like they're groping in the dark. With the latter, I ask about a half dozen questions that helps them zero in on what they're trying to get out of their system. Posts like yours, while well-intentioned, don't always help. We don't know anything about placement, how you sit relative to the loudspeakers, the gear, the room, the kind of music you like, or what volume level you normally employ when you listen. Knowing the specifics regarding these variables are necessary in making the determination as to what finally ends up in the loudspeakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I have to jump in and say half of the heresys i have owned at least 12(non pro) pairs from h1-h3...the heresy and h2's all needed at least cap work period. Im a 3way speaker guy and love heresy' big time. Edited May 2, 2014 by beeker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Since there isn't very much I can say on this topic without it sounding like a "sales pitch" anyways, I've decided not to worry about it, and just say whatever it is I think needs to be said to support my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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