Administrators Chad Posted May 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 12, 2014 The only way a moderator or admin can read anyone else's PMs is if a PM gets reported via the "report" button. That's it*. The ONLY other way to see PM content would be through direct access to the database, to which I am currently the only one in the company with access. I've been trusted with keeping the data, so you can trust that I'm not digging through the database tables reading people's PMs. Who has time for that? That said, no PM system is truly private - but we do our best to make it as private as we can. We have no reason to be digging around in there. Why would we? * edit: unless an admin were to log in as a member, which is possible with this system. The only Admins are Amy and I, and we don't have a reason to ever do this, except to test member group permission settings, which is the primary reason for that function existing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mark got all paranoid at some point about PMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 THE NSA CAN AND DOES STORE YOUR EMAILS. In Valeria Jarrett's back closet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) I never claimed not to see the lawyer point of view I did not mean this as a "lawyers point of view." It simply is the terms under which we agree to use this site. I hear what you are saying about there being other considerations, but I fear none of us understand what is truly going on with our privacy. For example, how often does anyone read the pages long "conditions" that you must check before you sign up for anything on the internet? Do you really know what the smart apps on your phone are doing? If not, you had your chance to find out before clicking, "I agree." Does it scare anyone else that when you do a Google search, that product magically appears the next time you sign on to Yahoo or go to Amazon? we now get tickets from hidden cameras and whenever you walk down a city street you are photographed by countless cameras. Facial recognition puts you and your whereabouts into huge data warehouses. I can find out more about you than you would ever believe and all I need is your name and one piece of data (address, DOB, relatives names, etc.) It stinks, but that is the world we live in. THERE IS NO PRIVACY ANYWHERE. GET USED TO IT. The only way things will change is through legislation restricting invasions into our privacy and no one seems to care. We get bulls**ted into not complaining because something gets named the "Patriot Act." Who does not want to be a patriot? However, it has NOTHING to do with being a patriot. It has to do with losing our freedom. As for the difference between a "legal argument" and a "moral" argument, it is a distinction without a difference. The law reflects the contract we as human beings have with each other. It was devised to bring civility to a barbaric world. When it does not work it needs to be modified as that is the only way to change things. I respect Mark for making a decision to not participate if he thinks this is improper. It has nothing to do with "paranoia" but rather it is someone thinking about the "rules" and opting out. OK...I was gone for a little while but I am back now. What was it we were talking about?? Edited May 12, 2014 by eth2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted May 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 12, 2014 One other important thing to note here is the PM system here is not called "Private Messaging". It's called "Personal Messaging". There is a distinction there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) One other important thing to note here is the PM system here is not called "Private Messaging". It's called "Personal Messaging". There is a distinction there. "Personal" v "Private?" Not sure I see the difference. If it is "personal" that means those who I do not want to see it should not. "Private" means the same thing...a conversation between the sender and the recipient. In any event, it is neither personal nor private as the Terms make clear. Edited May 12, 2014 by eth2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 THERE IS NO PRIVACY ANYWHERE. GET USED TO IT. Probably somewhat off-topic from a forum "PM" system; however, privacy and security only seems to be getting worse everywhere a person looks with the proliferation of cyber attacks. U.S. notified 3,000 companies in 2013 about cyberattacks http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-notified-3000-companies-in-2013-about-cyberattacks/2014/03/24/74aff686-aed9-11e3-96dc-d6ea14c099f9_story.html While the cyber-security issue is not necessarily new, the issue has been gaining a lot of traction over the past few years. In many news feeds that I read, cyber security seems to be a significant topic. Think about the new headlines over the past year including the Snoeden revelations and the huge, material data breaches during 2013 (i.e. Target) that hit the news. Now think about the overall pervasiveness of the invisible online tracking that you allude to and the "data-brokering" and "trading" of personal data. In many circles, each of these incidents have begun to make people realize that we do not have much insight into how our personal information is collected, used and protected, hence, what I believe to be the relevance to this thread. Think about just this past year and you begin to realize how these varoius aspects have begun to take an "old concern" about the security of personal information and now bring it into a much broader and more universal fear that in addition to our personal data and information, the country's infrastructure is vulnerable and the various companies that we work for, or invest in, may also be vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted May 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 12, 2014 "Personal" v "Private?" Not sure I see the difference Correct. By definition, they are not mutually exclusive. However, it is still open to interpretation. Here's a relevant article on TechCrunch. It's more about Facebook's policies (which I find questionable in about every regard), but makes mention of such a "grey area". http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/28/theres-a-difference-between-private-and-personal/ The bottom line here is that Klipsch isn't gonna read your PMs, nor do we want to. Perhaps an exception would be for legal reasons, but I'm no lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve sells Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) In support of Chad, I am Admin of another (not sound related at all) site that uses this software. Also we were the primary beta testers for the IP-board software for about 2 years before Klipsch moved to using it here. In the initial version there was complete privacy for the system Email, PM and Chat room PM's (not all features of which are installed here) but soon we realized some possible legal issues. Because if we can view or not - does not matter to the courts - the operators of a place like this are still liable for posts made, so there had to be a way to comfirm/deny harassment, there is no "peek here" button, rather, as Chad stated: the Admin must access the database directly, and those privs are not automatic to all Admin, that priv has to be assigned to each staff member individualy by the system head. Maybe there is a option I am not aware of, but at our place a report filed includes a copy for referance of the post being complained about, which is sent to the "Moderator control panel", for review only by staff, so they can address the problem. But to comment about the privacy issue here, The "privacy invasion" issues of that report feature are no different than if that same member used copy/paste to send that post to others to read anyway, except as I priviously stated, for legal reasons we needed the ability to confirm or deny the OP and not a possibly edited copy and paste to base any "staff action". As Chad already mentioned, we dont have time for messing around spying on members either, so if a member abuses the reporting feature they may find they are no longer members, for wasting our time. If a staff member did it, they would be nailed to the wall so fast... None of that stuff has happened often, and we have 200 to 300 posts a day from over 160 countries at the other site. edited: I found more typos, which is no supprise to those the really know me, Dyslexic's of the world untie Edited May 13, 2014 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 None of that stuff has happened often, and we have 200 to 300 posts a day from over 160 countries at the other site. You guy's might have been handy if consulted in advance regarding the ACA.... lol.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 None of that stuff has happened often, and we have 200 to 300 posts a day from over 160 countries at the other site.You guy's might have been handy if consulted in advance regarding the ACA.... lol.. When I see "ACA" on this forum, this is the first site that comes to mind: http://www.aca.gr/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) One other important thing to note here is the PM system here is not called "Private Messaging". It's called "Personal Messaging". There is a distinction there. "Personal" v "Private?" Not sure I see the difference. If it is "personal" that means those who I do not want to see it should not. "Private" means the same thing...a conversation between the sender and the recipient. In any event, it is neither personal nor private as the Terms make clear. I don't "know" you except on this forum, but am I correct that you are, or were a lawyer? I'm making that assumption based on the fact that you argue BOTH sides of the argument! And, you make your arguments very well, IMHO. +++ Oh, and if you aren't a lawyer, I apologize in advance for calling you a bad name. And if you want to discuss this further, feel free to send me a Private Message..., uh, Personal Message....., uh, oh just give me a call. +++ BTW, I am a therapist off the air, so if you are a lawyer, you can tell me all the ways I am wrong, and then I get to ask you how you feel about that... +++ (edit:) I know it is hard to always know the intent of people who post words without seeing their face, but know that I always post with a smile on my face. Or in this particular post, laughing at myself, because sometimes I crack myself up! Edited May 13, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 What sort of post/PM exposes Klipsch to what kind of liability? Maybe if we used the forum to plan a terrorist attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornmiester Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Because if we can view or not - does not matter to the courts - the operators of a place like this are still liable for posts made, Steve, it is always dangerous to talk about something you are clueless about: Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230). "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." Further, federal law preempts state laws in this regard: "[n]o cause of action may be brought and no liability may be imposed under any State or local law that is inconsistent with this section." It is virtually impossible to hold the host liable for the actions of the participants under federal law. Edited May 14, 2014 by Hornmiester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) "We had a good court until those pettifogging lawyers moved in." LoL Edited May 14, 2014 by Sancho Panza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve sells Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Because if we can view or not - does not matter to the courts - the operators of a place like this are still liable for posts made, Steve, it is always dangerous to talk about something you are clueless about: Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230). "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." Further, federal law preempts state laws in this regard: "[n]o cause of action may be brought and no liability may be imposed under any State or local law that is inconsistent with this section." It is virtually impossible to hold the host liable for the actions of the participants under federal law Funny how we had a DMCA close us for 2 weeks last July from some posts at our place. I would call that being held liable, but seeing how I am clueless. Thank you for pointing that out. I had not noticed Also the world is a large place, who said it is only US law a web site software producer needs to think about ? Edited May 16, 2014 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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