Layman's Guide To Best Listening At a Outdoor Concert

[thebes]

Article is from today's Washington Post:

Want to actually hear the music at an outdoor concert? Here’s how to find the best seat. By Brian Palmer, Published: May 12

The outdoor music season is upon us: a wonderful time to sip wine and enjoy the fresh air and music while sitting on your favorite blanket. You know what’s not so wonderful at outdoor concerts, though? The sound, which is a problem because that’s sort of the whole point.

Walls and ceilings play important roles in how we hear music. They absorb or reflect sound waves, or do a little of both. A sound engineer’s central challenge is managing these reflections, because they vastly change the sound being heard. Think of a grand concert hall: long and narrow, with hard surfaces. That’s no coincidence “In a concert hall, you hear reflections from the walls and ceilings,” says Trevor Cox, a professor of acoustic engineering at the University of Salford in England and author of “The Sound Book: The Science of the Sonic Wonders of the World.” “Those extra seconds of sound embellish the music and give you a sense of envelopment.” In the open air, the sounds drift away.

So how can you make the best of a sonically sub-optimal situation?

For one thing, stick to fast-tempo music. Some genres need reverberance — those reflecting sound waves. Slow-moving pieces benefit from as much as three seconds of lingering sound. It blends the notes together, lending an ethereal feel. That’s why cavernous churches with rock-hard, reflective surfaces are great venues for

So how can you make the best of a sonically sub-optimal situation?

For one thing, stick to fast-tempo music. Some genres need reverberance — those reflecting sound waves. Slow-moving pieces benefit from as much as three seconds of lingering sound. It blends the notes together, lending an ethereal feel. That’s why cavernous churches with rock-hard, reflective surfaces are great venues for

beneath a layer of warmer air — sound traveling upward can reflect back down onto the audience, fighting with the new sounds coming from the speakers in unpredictable ways. The best tactic under these circumstances is to create a focused beam of sound.

“Flared speakers send music in a particular direction, much like a spotlight,” Cox says. “You can arrange different directional speakers to create patterns and limit the sound to a very focused area.” When you’re caught in a blast of sound like this, you want rock-and-roll or the more upbeat jazz styles. If you must go to an outdoor classical concert, try for something snappy, such as baroque music.

Some outdoor environments lend themselves to better sound than others. The best venue is a sloped seating area, with the stage at the bottom. There’s a reason that amphitheaters have been set up that way for thousands of years, and it’s not just to help people in the back see.

Outdoor venues typically have little natural reverberance. The sound waves travel upward and outward without striking anything, and the occasional objects they do strike — such as grass and human flesh — are absorbent. Even if reverb were possible, the sound engineers wouldn’t necessarily want to use it. They may have to keep the sound from drifting into nearby homes. They also worry about the weather: In a temperature inversion— when cool air is trapped beneath a layer of warmer air — sound traveling upward can reflect back down onto the audience, fighting with the new sounds coming from the speakers in unpredictable ways. The best tactic under these circumstances is to create a focused beam of sound.

“Flared speakers send music in a particular direction, much like a spotlight,” Cox says. “You can arrange different directional speakers to create patterns and limit the sound to a very focused area.” When you’re caught in a blast of sound like this, you want rock-and-roll or the more upbeat jazz styles. If you must go to an outdoor classical concert, try for something snappy, such as baroque music.

Some outdoor environments lend themselves to better sound than others. The best venue is a sloped seating area, with the stage at the bottom. There’s a reason that amphitheaters have been set up that way for thousands of years, and it’s not just to help people in the back see.

“Greek amphitheaters are amazing places,” Cox says. “They seem to have used the stage area to add reflections off the floor, and raised seats prevent the sound from having to pass through too many heads.”

Positioning yourself at a spot with an unobstructed line between you and several speakerswill enhance your listening experience. But that’s not the only factor to consider when taking in an outdoor concert.

First, don’t sit too close to the speakers. The sound they produce is designed to reach people hundreds of feet away, often through several obstructions. Putting yourself just a few feet away is the sonic equivalent of drinking from a fire hydrant.

Next, find the mixing desk. The sound engineer will typically be located about two-thirds of the way between the stage and the back of the audience area. If you sit nearby, you’re getting the sound exactly as the engineer thinks it should be heard.

If the sound engineer has been shunted to the side of the stage, you should wander around before deciding where to sit. Different surfaces absorb sound at varying frequencies. (For example, manufacturers stuff car doors with materials that absorb high frequencies, so you get that robust sounding-thud when you close the door, Cox writes in his book.) As you walk, listen for the area with the best balance of bass and treble. It helps to stop and close your eyes occasionally: Our heavy reliance on vision undermines fine listening skills.

If all else fails, at least you have wine.

[billybob]

Thanks for the good read here.

When first thinking of an outdoor concert, I at first hearkened to the past Pop Concert or Rock Festival concerts of the past where, you are basically with the crowd looking toward the stage, elevated somewhat from your listening level which although higher, is diminshed in height the farther away from it you can choose to be. Along with the inevitable PA towers on either side of the stage typically higher still.

The amphitheater approach of the past on the other hand, is interesting in that, basically because of the say, half moon shape, ascending in the rear, for accomadting a listening position, higher than the typical flatland music festival. Interesting also that the modern approach is basically mimmicking in design, the theaters of old, in that even without amplification, or little amplification, a speaker can reach all of the listening positions with clarity.

The indoor music venue, at least some of them,(the Jacksonville Coliseum was like in shape) also are/were shaped after the older, time proven design.

In my case, I came as a viewer,listener, and was totally impressed, or the opposite depending upon the acoustics, or lack thereof, of all three forms of entertainment places.

Thanks again...

[minermark]

Indoors venues, 10 to 15 rows back dead center, outdoor 20 to 25 rows back dead center. no matter what the cost, as in ticky prices.

[thebes]

Nice comments BillyBob.

I once had the privileged of hearing a play given at a Roman amphitheater in Spain. Acoustics (just voices-no music) were great for being outside.

Still and all, outdoor venues are are a real challenge acoustically.

Edited May 16, 2014 by thebes

[mustang guy]

A couple years ago, I thought I had the perfect place to set up chairs at the Red Rock Allegiance Tour, an outdoor concert. It was just to the right of the sound booth, and directly in front of (on axis) the right stack, and about 120' back. Boy was I wrong! It was so loud, I had my fingers in my ears for the whole thing. It was a very long concert with multiple bands. I would have moved, but we had a great view of the stage, and farther back, the pattern was very full.

before Buck Cherry came on (who I don't really care for), we went to my truck which was about a mile away as a crow flies. We were going to leave, but we were blocked in. With the doors shut, you could hear the music perfectly. Talk about loud.

Edited May 17, 2014 by mustang guy

[billybob]

Yes, I can still hear ya. At a RStewart & Faces concert in the 70's, I got a little too close to a stack, fortunately I could escape it.

Must have been a large area where you were.

Edited May 17, 2014 by billybob

[wvu80]

If you go to your local drum and bugle corps show, pick about 22 rows up, then higher rather than lower. Anywhere between the 45 yard liness will give you the best seat in the house, and between the 35's are still great.

The drum corps idiom is features young people HS to college, with a world class 150 piece brass and percussion show. This is not "sounds of Sousa" anymore, the winning corps Carolina Crown last year played "Einstein in the Park, and Copeland's 3rd Symphony (Fanfare for the Common Man) and the runner-up Blue Devils from Concord, CA played Stravinski's Rite of Spring.

http://www.dci.org/schedule/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjadtT78NsY

Edited May 17, 2014 by wvu80

[mustang guy]

Yes, I can still hear ya. At a RStewart & Faces concert in the 70's, I got a little too close to a stack, fortunately I could escape it.

Must have been a large area where you were.

Yes, huge. It was at a race track.

[billybob]

Yes, I can still hear ya. At a RStewart & Faces concert in the 70's, I got a little too close to a stack, fortunately I could escape it.

Must have been a large area where you were.

Yes, huge. It was at a race track.

Yes, man I can dig it. Loud and mostly clear, and loud. You can get too close for comfortables sake. Those outdoor gigs can cover a small town area, I would think. There may have been some earplugs over the years present themselves. Even a tissue or 2 may be called for. lol

If you hear loud that far away, and in a vehicle loud, that is loud.

[beeker]

I gotta compare everything to old grateful dead shows when jerry was still "playin in the band" id been to outdoor shows with a half million tickets sold(buckeye Lake...iv been there to see the grateful dead a few times and been 12 rows from the stage front center and been at the back, got there late it rained terribly in 94) and 25k seat indoor venues... that inside loudness I heard back in 93 at cleveland indoor arena(cant remember its name) a love of loud indoor music was sparked...1 time i screamed YEAH! WOOOOOO! and the whole arena went nuts....I tried it again a few times that night and came up with nothing(nobody yelled along with me )

outdoors though as long as your in the center from the stage and the band are the size of ants your good(with big equipment bands)

small bands with 20k people outdoors i find it easy to get good sound near anywhere...I prefer out in my own spot with a friend or 2 although many times lived right by huge stacks in my touring days....I gotta stop....Nothing these days is even comparable to what you get today...rock in roll is a dieing breed...even metal or rap...its all stupid and i dont use the word stupid more than once a year....Im good now for a couple years lol

For the grateful dead in my opinion about 1993 it was over....too many punk rip off crack heads were showing up starting in 94....I was a guest at many phish shows....I didnt even go and still have 6 or 7 unused phish tickets from many years ago...they werent even loud....and just a bit fishy...

For normal music with an actual seat it all depends on venue and the band and possibly the day...the sweet spot is like a lottery

[Skelt]

I gotta compare everything to old grateful dead shows when jerry was still "playin in the band" id been to outdoor shows with a half million tickets sold(buckeye Lake...iv been there to see the grateful dead a few times and been 12 rows from the stage front center and been at the back, got there late it rained terribly in 94)

I think I was at the same show in 94. The Dead always seemed to me to have good accustics.

I was at a monsters of rock concert in Germany(early 90s) and was suprised by how some bands sound close to a studio recording but others sounded really bad.

[Boxx]

Speaking from experience....

First and foremost, do not attend any concert, where the house (management, ushers, security, etc...) do not protect your purchased seats.

At some venue's there is such lax enforcement of seating that no matter how good your seats are, you look up and you are surrounded by folks that have managed to get into your area, without proper tickets.

This can ruin your well paid for and planned seating arrangements.

[beeker]

I gotta compare everything to old grateful dead shows when jerry was still "playin in the band" id been to outdoor shows with a half million tickets sold(buckeye Lake...iv been there to see the grateful dead a few times and been 12 rows from the stage front center and been at the back, got there late it rained terribly in 94)

I think I was at the same show in 94. The Dead always seemed to me to have good accustics.

I was at a monsters of rock concert in Germany(early 90s) and was suprised by how some bands sound close to a studio recording but others sounded really bad.

I cant remember which year they skipped buckeye lake i believe it was 95 their final year...I may have 94&95 mixed around though...no offense to grunge rockers at all but that was the scene that had become of the beauty in the grateful dead scene...i bit grungy...small world nonetheless...my first buckeye lake we parked right by the gate...it was so overwhelming i thought id never see my home again lol my last buckeye lake it rained and we parked our gorgeous green vw panel van across an overpass along a farm road lined with cars and walked at least 4 miles to the stage lol i was in control of my group in a sense and never once thought i wouldnt see my home again lol it was muddy...any of them days i would cut my arm off to be there again....great memories!

Speaking from experience....

First and foremost, do not attend any concert, where the house (management, ushers, security, etc...) do not protect your purchased seats.

At some venue's there is such lax enforcement of seating that no matter how good your seats are, you look up and you are surrounded by folks that have managed to get into your area, without proper tickets.

This can ruin your well paid for and planned seating arrangements.

Absolutely and absurdly true!

You likely remember my discussing my moving closer last year to the klipsch concert venue and buying season passes for this year...well i didnt 1 because of this issue...the big other there are just not concerts that happen these days that are worth even half of what concerts used to cost....we went on a rather adventurous chicago at christmas time excursion instead....although did move closer lol

I am at the age now i would rather have a seat than stand...and the seat i would chose be fairly prime...so then arrive to argue and some college kid making $7hr to usher likely not gonna move anybody out of my seat even if I paid $375+ for a pair of seats...

At home is by far a greater choice in my wholeheartedly opinion unfortune/or fortunately

[ChuckAb3]

Lots of good comments here. One that I would add is avoid concerts where the idiot factor is likely to be high and there is no effective effort made to control them. Example - Willie Nelson concerts at Red Rocks here is Colorado. A seemingly large part of Willie's following at concerts seems to think they are "outlaws" too, drink like fish, generally behave badly, stand on seats making it impossible to see anything, etc. I'm no prude or inexperienced at partying but that crowd made the audiences at the four Stones concerts I've attended look like church gatherings. Same story for the Stephen Stills concert we attended last night in Boulder - great show, mostly well behaved audience and a great time. Not so for Willie and the wannabe "outlaws". Maybe it's different in other venues but sorta doubt it.

[mustang guy]

Stones fans are rockers, city slickers, hippies and cool cats. Willie fans are hillbillies, cowboys, rednecks and outlaws.

I am a big fan of both. I better not comment further. The law may be reading.

End note. I was at a Waylon and Willie concert back in my university days. My parents were both there with me. They smelled something burning... Guess what it was? LOL

[Ceptorman]

I know this thread is about outdoor listening, but there's a fairly new indoor theater I've been wanting to go to. It's the Palladium Center for Performing Arts in Carmel Indiana. It's supposed to have some of the best acoustics of any hall on the planet. I haven't liked any of the performers yet, except Peter Frampton is coming, I might have to get tickets. The ceiling is covered in adjustable glass panels to help with the sound. It's a 1600 seat venue with a 180 million dollar price tag.

[billybob]

Been thinking about the parabola half crescent shape of the outdoor amphitheaters built by the Romans and others. Just seems that they were maybe following the shape of the human or other ear shapes in nature, like as to be found with the nautilus.

Either that or, they invented the prototype of the parabolic antenna/dish for audio purposes. No way was this an accidental design. If you consider the dish/read parabolic ear as I have, you will quickly discover that at the prime focus/read focal point of the dish and read a sentence you will discover your own amplified voice. If you are the speaker at this focal point of arena/forum, it is then no wonder where amplification above the normal oratorical speech is hardly necessary. Thence, this would explain the eavesdropping, amplified parabolic ear with earphones, normally no more than a foot in diameter for listening in on the spies.

Since there were no dish antenna designs archeaeoligists have found, guessing they did not have Point To Point or, satellites back then.

[artto]

The best listening location at an outdoor concert (that has sound reinforcement) is always near the soundman, who is generally located in the sound booth which is (usually) some tarp covered scaffolding either on a center line some distance from the front of the stage or off to one side.

That being said, I'd like to convey two of these outdoor concert experiences, both at the Chicago Blues Festival.

On one occasion I was standing near the sound booth which was off to the side at this particular stage. Behind me and to my right was the Gibson guitar sponsor showcase trailer. They had their own sound system hooked up & playing music that had nothing to do with the live performance. The sound was really, really bad and very annoying. Finally, in frustration I turned around & was about to complain loudly when I saw what was making all the racket. It was a Bose column system. "That figures". And then decided it wasn't worth complaining about and went to the other side.

The other, more peculiar instance that day was in the Petrillo band shell area where they have a large cordoned off seating area. I was standing along side the sound booth. After a while security comes up to me and says "Sir, you can't stand here". I ask "Why not"? He says "This is a seating area only. You'll have to take a seat." OK, I go find a seat. A little while later security comes up to me again and says I can't sit there because its reserved. "I don't see any reserved sign". Yes, I know, but it's reserved. So then I go to the very back where there is a standing only area. After a while security comes up and says "Sir, you can't stand here". By now I'm getting a little pissed. Told him what has happened so far and asked "So, why can't I stand here." He says "This is a smoking only area." (I don't smoke). I turn to the guy next to me and ask for a cigarette, and he lights me up. I turn to the security guy & said "You go tell your ****ing boss that if I have move one more time I'm going to stick this cigarette up his $ss". True story. Unfortunately Johnny Winter sucked so I wound up leaving early anyway.

[beeker]

The best listening location at an outdoor concert (that has sound reinforcement) is always near the soundman, who is generally located in the sound booth which is (usually) some tarp covered scaffolding either on a center line some distance from the front of the stage or off to one side.

That being said, I'd like to convey two of these outdoor concert experiences, both at the Chicago Blues Festival.

On one occasion I was standing near the sound booth which was off to the side at this particular stage. Behind me and to my right was the Gibson guitar sponsor showcase trailer. They had their own sound system hooked up & playing music that had nothing to do with the live performance. The sound was really, really bad and very annoying. Finally, in frustration I turned around & was about to complain loudly when I saw what was making all the racket. It was a Bose column system. "That figures". And then decided it wasn't worth complaining about and went to the other side.

The other, more peculiar instance that day was in the Petrillo band shell area where they have a large cordoned off seating area. I was standing along side the sound booth. After a while security comes up to me and says "Sir, you can't stand here". I ask "Why not"? He says "This is a seating area only. You'll have to take a seat." OK, I go find a seat. A little while later security comes up to me again and says I can't sit there because its reserved. "I don't see any reserved sign". Yes, I know, but it's reserved. So then I go to the very back where there is a standing only area. After a while security comes up and says "Sir, you can't stand here". By now I'm getting a little pissed. Told him what has happened so far and asked "So, why can't I stand here." He says "This is a smoking only area." (I don't smoke). I turn to the guy next to me and ask for a cigarette, and he lights me up. I turn to the security guy & said "You go tell your ****ing boss that if I have move one more time I'm going to stick this cigarette up his $ss". True story. Unfortunately Johnny Winter sucked so I wound up leaving early anyway.

I like your post...i'll have to read it again...very nice!