Pioneer Elite, Emotiva & Outlaw Audio owners input Greatly Appreciated!

[tnr]

While negotiating some audio items I acquired a used Pioneer Elite SC-63 7.2 receiver rated at 125 X 7, I just got it last night and will be reading the manual this weekend. I have been wanting to replace my 2003 Outlaw 950 pre/pro and was leaning towards an Emotiva UMC-200 preamp, but that has been on hold. I have an Outlaw 770 7 channel x 200 watt amp. The Elite has the ability to bypass it's internal amps and use a separate amp via analog outputs. I was curious if any Elite owners are doing this. I will be experimenting to ultimately decide if the Elite's amps are plenty adequate and I sell my Outlaw amp or if I keep it and only use the Elite as the brain of the setup. I paid $1,700 for the Outlaw amp in 2003, and have no idea what they are going for. Likely not worth selling. I have not seen any sales on EBay lately, maybe because it weighs 90 lbs.. My other option is to sell the Pioneer Elite SC-63 and buy the dedicated Emotiva UMC-200 pre-amp. The values are about the same at approximately $600. I would love to hear if any forum members are using any of the Elite receivers and a sparate amp and would love to hear from any Emotiva owners as well. I am thinking I should keep my Outlaw amp because if a receiver or pre-amp craps out in the future, my cost to replace would only be in a new processor. I would also be interested if anyone has any recommendations for a 7 channel preamp/processor under $600. Thank you for your time and I value any input. I am running RF7's, RC-7, RS-7's, RB-5 II's (rears) and an RSW-15. Here are the specs on the Outlaw 770 amp.

Power output: 200 watts RMS x 7 (all channels driven simultaneously into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.05% total harmonic distortion). 300 watts RMS x 7 @ 4 ohms

Signal to Noise: 119dB "A" weighted

Power Bandwidth: 5 Hz - over 100 kHz (+0/-3 dB)

Crosstalk: Greater than -90 dB from 20 Hz to 20 KHz

Gain: Voltage gain of 28 dB.

Slew rate: 50 Volts/microsecond

Remote Trigger voltage: 3 - 32 volts DC

Power requirements: 115 V 50-60 Hz

Power consumption: 1,800 watts (maximum)

Dimensions (W x H x D): 17.2 x 7.75 with feet x 18 (inches)

Weight: 90 (lbs)

[derrickdj1]

I have an SC 35 which is 140 watts/ch. I think the 63 is strong enough since it can swing over 200 watts a channel if needed. In spite of the Elite avr's power, I use an external amp and use the avr as the brains of the system. I have been very happy with this setup and favor it over spending more money for a separate preamp. The Elite avr as a preamp is no slouch. The DAC is excellent along with the other features. I like running all my speakers as small even with all of the available power in my system. Do I truly need the Acurus 200 Five amp, that may be debateable but, I like having power amps in the mix. Amps, subwoofer and speaker have come and gone on the three years that I have been on the forum but, the SC 35 is a keeper. I can already say that my next avr will be a Pioneer Elite for my main HT. I like a MCACC based system.

Edited June 6, 2014 by derrickdj1

[Schu]

I also use the older ice based sc 35 with monoblocks via pre outs... system sounds very nice for both HT and 2 channel.

I do think you need to be careful how you mix and match though.

If I were to be honest, I think getting an avr with the idea of only using it to "control" is a slight waste, but I already had the sc35 and I needed a pre for my monos so it was natural for me to try it like that before deciding to get a stand alone pre.

One other thing is that I am only running three channels and the sc is only responsible for the center.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Schu

[akdave]

I have an Elite VSX 53 and I'm running to the Emotiva XPA 5.

I think it probably is a bit of overkill like Schu said, but I was able to get a great deal on the receiver and so that swung the pendulum for me.

[derrickdj1]

How much is a good preamp with all the features of an Elite avr?

[tnr]

Great...thanks for the input. I think I will swap out my old Outlaw pre/pro with the SC-63 this weekend, re-calibrate the sound levels, etc...and keep my amp in the mix. I will first test the SC-63 with some other speakers and sub I will be selling (smaller Klipsch system) to make sure the unit works properly. I bought the Elite on a whim...not hooked up, but he ensured me it worked and told me to call him if it didn't. It is very clean and mfg in July, 2012. A little risk, but it was a good package deal, and went with my gut. I am hoping the setup process is fairly simple. I have been running with speakers set as "small" as well. I am assuming the Elite's allow for manual x-over set-points? I haven't dived into the manual yet, and need to access it form the CD, seeing as Pioneer doesn't provide paper manuals anymore, like a lot of other companies. BTW, there is no simple way to do an A/B comparison with the internal amp and your external amps without running separate wires for both, correct? Stupid question, cause the answer is obvious. Schu, have you experienced any skipping issues with your Oppo 93 with regular CD's? I have had several not play, and called Oppo and they told me to copy it and see if it still happens. They play fine in 2 other players I have. These are store bought CD's, not burned. Kind of down on Oppo...you pay $500 for a "audiophile" player and it gives me more grief than my fist 1987 Magnavox CD player that still works fine. The drawer belt broke on my Denon DVD-2910 twice, where the door would not open and eject...another $500 player.

[derrickdj1]

Global XO but, you really don't need multiple XO points in the system.

[Heritage_Head]

I'm pretty happy with my elite sc55. It has a few things I would change. But overall it's nice. I also use just the pre outs. The xo has set #s like 100,80,50. Your can't use different ones for different speakers. Like you can't have the fronts at 50 and the center at 80. It also does not have live onscreen. So if you pull up the settings on the screen it pulls you away from the program. So no live tweaking. Those are the two things I would change. After that awsome avr.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Not a Pioneer owner but I do run external amps on my HT. The AVR is a 7.1 rated 110/7ch driven. Ya right. There was a big improvement when I added a Forte power amp to drive the mains. Then I added a Yamaha power amp (forgot which one but it is something like 250 wpc class a/ab) to drive my sides. This leaves the AVR to run center and backs. The headroom in the power supplies of all the amps makes the whole setup better. Cornwall2, Academy, H2 and KG 2 for backs. though I am thinking about taking them out of the mix (not much goes back there anyway) to use the Quartets as presence above the Cornwalls.

[derrickdj1]

Cal, sound like you had the legendary Yamaha M 85 or M 80. A turly great amp. I have to figure out what to do with my Yamaha M 80 that is just sitting around.

Edited June 6, 2014 by derrickdj1

[Schu]

Great...thanks for the input. I think I will swap out my old Outlaw pre/pro with the SC-63 this weekend, re-calibrate the sound levels, etc...and keep my amp in the mix. I will first test the SC-63 with some other speakers and sub I will be selling (smaller Klipsch system) to make sure the unit works properly. I bought the Elite on a whim...not hooked up, but he ensured me it worked and told me to call him if it didn't. It is very clean and mfg in July, 2012. A little risk, but it was a good package deal, and went with my gut. I am hoping the setup process is fairly simple. I have been running with speakers set as "small" as well. I am assuming the Elite's allow for manual x-over set-points? I haven't dived into the manual yet, and need to access it form the CD, seeing as Pioneer doesn't provide paper manuals anymore, like a lot of other companies. BTW, there is no simple way to do an A/B comparison with the internal amp and your external amps without running separate wires for both, correct? Stupid question, cause the answer is obvious. Schu, have you experienced any skipping issues with your Oppo 93 with regular CD's? I have had several not play, and called Oppo and they told me to copy it and see if it still happens. They play fine in 2 other players I have. These are store bought CD's, not burned. Kind of down on Oppo...you pay $500 for a "audiophile" player and it gives me more grief than my fist 1987 Magnavox CD player that still works fine. The drawer belt broke on my Denon DVD-2910 twice, where the door would not open and eject...another $500 player.

no simple way to AB the power, it requires routing to different terminals, it is possible to do if you are a gluten for punishment.

you can set the XO, but it has limited choices.. at least the 35 does, not sure about the 63. Global as stated above.

I am diametric to how others set up there speaker systems, I set my fronts to "large" and turn my XO down as far as it will go so the Sub is only picking up signal below 50hz. with the RF's I would imagine "small" is definitely the way to go.

My Oppo DOES NOT skip, not once. HOWEVER, I have experienced a nagging situation with what is basically a handshake issue... only on CD's. it necessitates me having to skip back to the beginning of the first song of a CD if I do not wait until full handshake connection is made between the Oppo and the Pioneer. it's not a big issue, but it is there... on CD's.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Schu

[CHASLS2]

I use the pre outs on my SC61 AVR for my Paradigm Sig2's.

[tnr]

I have an analog sound level meter, but you guys feel the Elite's MCACC accurately adjusts for trim and speaker distance? Is the provided AVNavigator cd and the AVR connected to the net the way to go for setup? Thanks for your input!

[Schu]

For distance, yes. I input my distance manually.

Like all things it needs subtle tweaking afterwards... but I am like that, never unsatisfied

Edited June 7, 2014 by Schu

[Schu]

So you are selling your Klipschorns and amp... what are you planning on running with ghe 63?

[InVeNtOr]

i wouldn't buy the UMC-200, if anything buy the Fusion 8100. sounds the same as the UMC-200 (according to Emotiva). it's the debate i also have, either 8100 or XMC.

i have 7's and i can say you need 200W per speaker. i would get the 8100 let it power your rear speakers and have your Outlaw just power the front 3. i'm assuming the outlaw amp acts like the emotiva where it divides the power per input, so if you just used that amp with 1 speaker, then you would have 1400w available. so if you used just it for LCR it would be 466w X 3.

of course i only suggest that if you want to go the emotiva route. personally, i'd say let the Elite power the rears and outlaw power mains. that's usually my suggestion if at all possible.

i currently have my 7's, UMC, and XPA-3. i'm thinking of trading out the UMC for the XMC and keep the amp the same.

i really think the amp makes the most difference in a HT set up. yes, i know different receivers sound different, but usually you can't hear the difference unless you are in a 2CH set up or listening to music. at least that is how it is for me. i did all my testing in 2CH, kept the settings i like the best there, and then used it only for HT.

really what you could do is have the elite power everything, see how it sounds, then let the outlaw power everything, see how that sounds, and then let the elite power the rears and outlaw power mains, and see which one you think sounds best, before you buy anything new.

just my 2 cents....

[Cal Blacksmith]

Cal, sound like you had the legendary Yamaha M 85 or M 80. A turly great amp. I have to figure out what to do with my Yamaha M 80 that is just sitting around.

Ah, yes it is an M80. Picked it up at a pawn shop for something like $150, the speaker terminals suffer from the all too common broken plastic mount issue but connected up and not moving it is fine LOL! I have tossed the idea around of sending it in for a "tune up" and an upgrade to the common issues but it is kind of expensive, the flip side is though that it is a pretty good amp.

A few years ago I had a M60 but the magic smoke leaked out one day, I just turned it on and poof, the smoke came out! It would be a shame for that to happen with the M80

Edited June 9, 2014 by Cal Blacksmith

[derrickdj1]

I have went through a few amps and the old Yamaha amps can't be beat. The M 80 sounded just as clean as my Mc Intosh, except more power.

[SuBXeRo]

keep the outlaw! I've been running my 7125 for about 2 years now and I love it!

For what its worth, of the receivers i have used, none have made me happier, functions wise and GUI wise than my Emotiva UMC-1 Dedicated Processor. The Pioneer SC amps are very formidable to say the least and actually put out good power.

[SuBXeRo]

i wouldn't buy the UMC-200, if anything buy the Fusion 8100. sounds the same as the UMC-200 (according to Emotiva). it's the debate i also have, either 8100 or XMC.

i have 7's and i can say you need 200W per speaker. i would get the 8100 let it power your rear speakers and have your Outlaw just power the front 3. i'm assuming the outlaw amp acts like the emotiva where it divides the power per input, so if you just used that amp with 1 speaker, then you would have 1400w available. so if you used just it for LCR it would be 466w X 3.

of course i only suggest that if you want to go the emotiva route. personally, i'd say let the Elite power the rears and outlaw power mains. that's usually my suggestion if at all possible.

i currently have my 7's, UMC, and XPA-3. i'm thinking of trading out the UMC for the XMC and keep the amp the same.

i really think the amp makes the most difference in a HT set up. yes, i know different receivers sound different, but usually you can't hear the difference unless you are in a 2CH set up or listening to music. at least that is how it is for me. i did all my testing in 2CH, kept the settings i like the best there, and then used it only for HT.

really what you could do is have the elite power everything, see how it sounds, then let the outlaw power everything, see how that sounds, and then let the elite power the rears and outlaw power mains, and see which one you think sounds best, before you buy anything new.

just my 2 cents....

I have the 7's and i've got 125 watts going to each and it shakes the house without issue at ear splitting levels albeit the power is coming from a dedicated power amp. I've had to adjust the eq on the low end of the 7's to get some good thump out of them religiously and since then, they have been such a different animal. 200 watts is great though, you can never have too much power.

I agree, the XMC is pretty nice looking but the sucker is expensive.