Scrappydue Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I was checking them out too...BlueJeanscable.com. I don't have XLR, just standard RCA. Are you referring to these...can't find a good description on their site. I will call them. One-foot Y cable, 1 Male/2 Female RCA $10.0 I don't need 400 watts, but bi-amping 200 to LF and HF should yield better results, and I already have the amp power. bi amping to a passive crossover does nothing from what I've read. Only helps when you are bi amping an active network. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I was checking them out too...BlueJeanscable.com. I don't have XLR, just standard RCA. Are you referring to these...can't find a good description on their site. I will call them. One-foot Y cable, 1 Male/2 Female RCA $10.0 I don't need 400 watts, but bi-amping 200 to LF and HF should yield better results, and I already have the amp power. bi amping to a passive crossover does nothing from what I've read. Only helps when you are bi amping an active network. So true!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnr Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Finally moving forward today and did the MCACC advanced setup. Maybe I should have done the basic MCACC. The OSD setting descriptions are bit confusing because it describes the speaker settings along with what terminals on the AVR it will use. I am using all pre-outs to my amp (no AVR amps/speaker terminals), have set AVR Speakers to Off, did the MCACC and it did not detect the rear surrounds. When I go to the speaker settings, it describes SB/FH & SB/FW settings, but indicates it is using the AVR's speaker terminals. You guys indicated that it will likely need tweaking after MCACC, so if I go to advanced MCACC, can I manually just tweak the rears? 1st I need the AVR to identify that there are rear surrounds. I would prefer not go go through the whole MCACC setup again. If necessary, the dogs will have to go back outside. That MCACC is pretty cool and a lot more advanced than the simple one-tone test tones. I have a Radio Schack meter I can use to manually adust. Is that how you are doing your tweaking? Derrick indicated he prefers setting his speakers to small. MCACC set them to Large. With RF-7's as fronts, RC-7 center, RS-7 sides, and RB-5ii's as rears, and an RSW-15 sub, should I leave the x-over at 80hz, or override it and set the RF-7's and RC-7 lower? Wait, I think someone said earlier that there is only one global x-over setting, so leave it at 80? Should I leave the speakers set to large? Or override MCACC and set to small? If set to large, then would the sub only be getting LFE signals, and each speaker set to Large would get the full signal? Seems like they should be set to small, or just the RF-7's set to large. Thoughts?? Then comes the Oppo BDP-93. I want the AVR to handle all the speaker settings, so all the speaker settings in the player should be set large, correct? This is the first time I am using HDMI from the player, so is there a HDMI setting in the player that I can simply set to send full audio to the AVR? I will read the Oppo manual, but I find a lot of these manuals make it more complex than it really is. Edited October 18, 2014 by tnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) You can adjust your speaker lay out with out running macc. Go to set up and speaker set up. Large and small is a endless debate. One side always xo and another side says don't need to with big speakers like the 7s. My advise is try them as small at 80 for a few weeks. Then change it up and see if you like or dislike the changes. Only you can decide what sounds better on your system. Edited October 18, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnr Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 I see that, but adding the SB seems to only be available with the AVR's speaker terminals, at least that's how it appears based on the menu descriptions. I thought maybe it was treating the sides and rears the same, but I should be able to set the distance and delays separately for sides and rears. I will continue playing around with it. Surprised it doesn't allow for separate X-over points for fronts, center, and surrounds. If so, I would set the fronts to 60hz and leave everything else at 80. Seems like the safe thing would be to stay with 80. I could be wrong, but I thought it was someone at Klipsch Tech support that said to add 30hz to the lowest freq response rating of the speaker for the approximate x-over setting. Seeing as there is only one setting, doesn't matter here, so 80hz it is, or I may be risking too much at the center, surrounds and sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) You should have pre outs for the rears (mine does)? The xo being stuck all the same is a disappointment. But you won't hear much difference being ox at 80 vs 60. You could xo at 60 np with your set up if thats what you like. Set up the front 3 first and then the rest will have to fall in line. Im running everything at 80 right now and it sounds fantastic. I would bet no matter how you set the xo your system is gonna be great. Keep in mind macc sets the sub level really low. I always bump it up around 0. I think it sets it at around -10 from the start. My remote has a button that lets you change levels live (sub as well). On every movie I adjust the sub for that movie being that they are so different movie too movie. Do you have that on your remote? Edited October 19, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas0line Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) If MCACC set ur sub at -10 , you need to turn the gain on ur sub down. The idea with mcacc is you want to set the gain so that mcacc calibrates it at close to 0db as possible. I got mine calibrated at 0.5 db. You want it closest to 0 as possible. Took me a few tries but you keep turning your gain down a little until mcacc gets it as close to 0 as possible. There is a great thread on avs called the official pioneer mcacc thread that talks about this. Edited October 19, 2014 by Gas0line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnr Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Yes, it has pre-outs for the rears, so surprised it didn't detect them, and I agree only one XO point is a disappointment, seeing as I had it with a 12 year old pre/pro, but oh well. MCACC is new to me. Impressive how accurate it set the distance measurements. Not sure how it opted to set all speakers at large, but I changed them to small. I manually added SB's. Thought I would have to change the mode to Dolby EX, but it's sending signals to the rears and sides automatically with OTA broadcast (Blackhawks game on during this). Yes, during the MCACC process it told me to turn down the sub a few times until it accepted. It also was slightly off on the distance for the sub. I have my sub near my sweet spot with a 50' cable, do to room constraints. I only have the Pioneer remote it came with. Another thing that I think I figured out is the 12v trigger input settings. I thought I would have only needed it set to Main when turning on the AVR, but when I changed from TV to DVD, for example, it was powering off the amp. So, is my understanding correct that the 12 volt trigger should be set to Main for all inputs? I assumed when it was set to OFF, it would not have sent a signal to the amp when the input was selected. HDMI for audio is also new to me. I have an HDMI cable hooked up from my player to the AVR, and a digital coax cable hooked between them. Are standard CD's not compatible with HDMI? Are only DVD's and BD's compatible, or not even DVD's? Geez, I thought I was sharper with this stuff. I haven't even had an adult beverage since last Monday due to going on Zithromax, an antibiotic for a chest/sinus cold. Thanks Gentlemen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If MCACC set ur sub at -10 , you need to turn the gain on ur sub down. The idea with mcacc is you want to set the gain so that mcacc calibrates it at close to 0db as possible. I got mine calibrated at 0.5 db. You want it closest to 0 as possible. Took me a few tries but you keep turning your gain down a little until mcacc gets it as close to 0 as possible. There is a great thread on avs called the official pioneer mcacc thread that talks about this. Yes I have seen that. But the gain on the subs are fine. If I turned It down anymore I would be up in the high +s on the avr. I like it right at or around 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Yes, it has pre-outs for the rears, so surprised it didn't detect them, and I agree only one XO point is a disappointment, seeing as I had it with a 12 year old pre/pro, but oh well. MCACC is new to me. Impressive how accurate it set the distance measurements. Not sure how it opted to set all speakers at large, but I changed them to small. I manually added SB's. Thought I would have to change the mode to Dolby EX, but it's sending signals to the rears and sides automatically with OTA broadcast (Blackhawks game on during this). Yes, during the MCACC process it told me to turn down the sub a few times until it accepted. It also was slightly off on the distance for the sub. I have my sub near my sweet spot with a 50' cable, do to room constraints. I only have the Pioneer remote it came with. Another thing that I think I figured out is the 12v trigger input settings. I thought I would have only needed it set to Main when turning on the AVR, but when I changed from TV to DVD, for example, it was powering off the amp. So, is my understanding correct that the 12 volt trigger should be set to Main for all inputs? I assumed when it was set to OFF, it would not have sent a signal to the amp when the input was selected. HDMI for audio is also new to me. I have an HDMI cable hooked up from my player to the AVR, and a digital coax cable hooked between them. Are standard CD's not compatible with HDMI? Are only DVD's and BD's compatible, or not even DVD's? Geez, I thought I was sharper with this stuff. I haven't even had an adult beverage since last Monday due to going on Zithromax, an antibiotic for a chest/sinus cold. Thanks Gentlemen! Hdmi will run everything you can think of. I believe for the 12v you need to set them on. I know I had a little issue getting that set up. Don't know for sure if thats how I solved it. But think it is. When you ran macc do you set it as 7ch? If you didn't before you ran it it wouldn't look for the rears. When you plug the mic in and the macc screen pops up. The first set of options is speaker system lay out. That need to be set right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJIann Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 As a newbie on the forum, I was just going back through this thread. Lot of interesting information. I noticed in the original post that you had asked if anyone knew of a good pre-amp for under $600. Just wanted to chime in that I bought the Outlaw Audio 975 pre-amp/processor about 6 months ago. It was just under $600 and gets great reviews. I really like it. Very compact and highly functional. My only complaint with it was no built-in phono pre-amp. I guess they could only build in so much to the small chassis. Had to buy a NAD phone pre-amp separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) IMHO, I think the global xo works well. The only reason I would set the xo less than 80 Hz would be to increase the subwoofer overhead a small bit or if it helped to eliminate a problem at the xo which I have not read that people were having a problem with MCACC. Coming from a Denon, Onkyo, or some other Brand is different than MCACC but, not necessarily superior. Setting Individual xo is based on consumer demand with no supported scientific evidence that I have been able to find. I did not mention nothing about the speakers for a reason. IMHO a XO change is of no benefit to the speakerss when using a sub unless the speakers can't do 80 Hz. Crossovers of 60 vs 80 can't be clearly distinguished a a multi-channel setup in 98% of the cases. If you don't hear zebras in an elephat stamped, I would go look for the exception. Sub distance is based on when the sound get's to the mic and not physical distance. The only way I would start tweaking the distance of the sub is if you have a way to see how it affects the systems FR. Auddysee users frequently change the sub distance but, this is not the same program and the same pricipals don't apply. The DSP is correcting standing waves, setting time delays for multiple frequencies that can't be accurately done by hand..It may take days to weeks to get it right by hand/ear and you still need to measure the FR. The DSP is doing hundreds if not thousands of thing that is hard to to with one or two tweaks comparde to tweaking the sub distance. Edited October 20, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnr Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 As a newbie on the forum, I was just going back through this thread. Lot of interesting information. I noticed in the original post that you had asked if anyone knew of a good pre-amp for under $600. Just wanted to chime in that I bought the Outlaw Audio 975 pre-amp/processor about 6 months ago. It was just under $600 and gets great reviews. I really like it. Very compact and highly functional. My only complaint with it was no built-in phono pre-amp. I guess they could only build in so much to the small chassis. Had to buy a NAD phone pre-amp separately. Welcome to the forum TJ, and thank you for posting! I considered replacing my Outlaw 950 pre/pro with the newer 975 and talked to Outlaw and Emotiva, comparing the 975 with Emo's UMC-200. Ended up stumbling on a barely used Pioneer Elite AVR for less, so that's what I am running now. I am glad you are happy with the 975. From a simplicity, compatibility and ventilation stand point, the Outlaw 975 would have been nice. I agree, now phono stage is a shortfall, and the Pioneer doesn't have it either. I also wish the 975 had 7 analog outputs for multi-channel, but HDMI allowed them to eliminate. What amp are you running with your 975? Derrick, I ran full MCACC and haven't tweaked anything, other than manually adding the 2 rear channels and speaker distance. It appears the manual MCACC menu will allow me to independently calibrate channels, so I will run the MCACC for just the rear channels and see how it goes, rather than running the full MCACC again. Then again, maybe I should run the full MCACC since I changed the speaker settings to small, post running MCACC. Shouldn't matter should it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 MCACC will calibrate the system for all the possibilities. Re- run full MCACC, The speaker then need to be changed back to small. Then run Auto MCACC and use the option to keep system since you have set them to small. Then run manual MCACC multi-p for 3 positions of the mic. This will give you better coverage for multiple seats. Once MCACC is done, don't touch the subs again. If you want more or less bass, adjust it through the avr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I've been running the Pioneers Elites for at least 5 years. The auto set up feature, MCACC is nice, but takes some getting accustomed to. Pretty sure their is a manual option to reset the defaults. I would find it and memorize the location. The manual is C at best, but with lots of patience you can decipher what you need. After running the auto set up a few times, I made a few minor tweeks with the manual speaker set up. Notably making the center channel a bit lounder since this is where the dialog comes from, I typically don't listen at theater volume. The quality of the amps and pre pre amps in the Elite gear is quite good. Having said that, I will be going outboard and bi-amping the center channel at some point. Better than leaving the amps on the shelf doing nothing and they are not worth selling and too expensive to replace with newer possibly inferior ones. I'll be using three Yamaha MX 800s. This should yield all Class A at most volumes and insane amounts of overhead that I am unlikely to use. But better than collecting dust. Don't be afraid of the manual set up menus, they are friendly once you get the hang of them. On the small v large, I went large with the C-3 and B-3. Typically I keep the sub below the setting the auto set up wanted, occasionaly crank it back for a movie. My two cents...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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