Can Klipsch make a better center speaker than RC-64 II for the Referene II line?

[wvu80]

Can you mount the tv high and just do three towers across the front? Life will be much better then. LCR rules home theater for sure!

I was thinking that as well, or at least some variation of that. Since he likes the sound for male dialog from his RF-82 II, is a third RF82-II an option?

Mr. gtg90, how much space do you have in the front? Does this have to be a Klipsch center?

I don't know about timbre matching, but I know of a DIY kit with dual 8's that is horn driven, that might be able to keep up with the RF-82 II's. It's called the 88 special, and it was designed to be a center in a theater setup.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/88special-kit.html

For the cost of about $350 you might get a center that would keep up with your RF-82 II's and give you that nice mid-range voice you are looking for. It has dual 8" woofers and a 15" horn driven SEOS waveguide.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1533068-88-special-center-channel-build.html

I couldn't post a pic here, but there is a picture of it Post #30, and Post #36 on the above link.

Edited June 28, 2014 by wvu80

[Scrappydue]

That cinema 88 is similar design to the kl-650 from the thx ultra 2 lineup. And as a former owner of both I will say the thx ultra 2 was better center channel than the rc-64. However it sounds like he is looking for "fuller" sound (more bass from what I am gathering) a tower is gonna be the way to go. ORRRRRR if you can squeeze another tower how about a single RB-81ii standing up? I'm betting it would do about 95% of what the rf-82ii will do. And vertical centers are better anyways.

[wvu80]

That cinema 88 is similar design to the kl-650 from the thx ultra 2 lineup. And as a former owner of both I will say the thx ultra 2 was better center channel than the rc-64. However it sounds like he is looking for "fuller" sound (more bass from what I am gathering) a tower is gonna be the way to go. ORRRRRR if you can squeeze another tower how about a single RB-81ii standing up? I'm betting it would do about 95% of what the rf-82ii will do. And vertical centers are better anyways.

I agree with everything you said.

With the DIY concept, I am not trying to "sell" an idea, it's just when a guy has a real clear picture in his head of what he is looking for, THE answer is not always at the fingertips. I have played similar SEOS speakers vis-a-vis my Klipsch and I actually swapped drivers from one speaker to another. The sound was remarkedly the same, especially swapping compression drivers and horns.

And I think I know the sound he is looking for. I also don't buy equipment for its own sake, I am usually looking for a characteristic sound. Similar to the OP, when dialog is going on, whether male of female, I want to be in the next room and really believe somebody is in my house talking.

The exact way to get there equipment-wise, I don't know.

Edited June 28, 2014 by wvu80

[qtg90]

Can you mount the tv high and just do three towers across the front? Life will be much better then. LCR rules home theater for sure!

Yes, i can. However, in that situation the center of my led lg 60" will be about 5' from the ground level and my eyes will be approximately 3'4'' due to my low sofa. The point is that i'm not comfortable with raising my head up while watching movie and eating snack concurrently. Its unhealthy because when eating, you may naturally bow your head a little (just a very little) and i think most people feel the same. Eating and watching at the same time is always a great combo and i dont want to sacrifice it. Three identical towers is the best no doubt but that is most practical when you have a audio transparent screen with projector, IMHO.

@ wvu80 : how much space do you have in the front? Does this have to be a Klipsch center? I don't know about timbre matching, but I know of a DIY kit with dual 8's that is horn driven, that might be able to keep up with the RF-82 II's. It's called the 88 special, and it was designed to be a center in a theater setup.

As mentioned above, i dont have much space and of course, it has to be klipsch and always klipsch, i'm addicted to the horn sound. And about DIY speakers, i think its hard for them to be timbre matched to my RF system.

Edited June 28, 2014 by qtg90

[qtg90]

An RC 7 may be a consideration.

Absolutely, but its hard to find a new one and i dont favor 2nd speakers so much. I always want them in the brand new condition when buying and the unboxing process, it just feels great, i love it.

Edited June 28, 2014 by qtg90

[qtg90]

I've owned the original RC-64 and personally was very unimpressed with it. To me, the RC-7 was the best I've owned with the KV-4 coming in at a close second.

I ve never taken an audition for RC-7 but i feel the same way as you do when looking at its design in klipsch site. Thats probably the best design for a HT 2-way center speaker, IMHO .

Edited June 28, 2014 by qtg90

[Porn_Star]

use an rf 82ii as your center channel?

[qtg90]

That cinema 88 is similar design to the kl-650 from the thx ultra 2 lineup. And as a former owner of both I will say the thx ultra 2 was better center channel than the rc-64. However it sounds like he is looking for "fuller" sound (more bass from what I am gathering) a tower is gonna be the way to go. ORRRRRR if you can squeeze another tower how about a single RB-81ii standing up? I'm betting it would do about 95% of what the rf-82ii will do. And vertical centers are better anyways.

Two RB-81ii being placed horizontally with the 2 horn in the middle, 2 woofers at the 2 sides will be great. But the Klipsch horn doesnt look symmertrical to me. For me placing center speaker horizontally is a must because i'm using tv and right below it is center speakers, pre, amp respectively.

"Fuller" sound is right, warmer and rounder bass but maybe not exactly more bass. I dont know how to describe it but its the bass of 8" klipsch woofers i'm looking for

Edited June 28, 2014 by qtg90

[qtg90]

use an rf 82ii as your center channel?

As mentioned above, its not practical in my case. After all, i'm happy with RC-64ii as i was once happy with RC-62ii. But i think Klipsch could ve made me even happier at the same price range of RC-64ii

Edited June 28, 2014 by qtg90

[Heritage_Head]

The 64ii is a great center imo. I felt it was a huge upgrade over the 62 in sq.

To the op part of this can be placement. Are the rf82ii near corners or walls? That would give them a bigger sound in the lower end. The 64ii is probably placed far from any corners so it gets very little low end gain that way. Maybe try the xo higher than 80. Try 100 or even 120hz xo. That way more low end for the center will be handled by the sub.

[qtg90]

The 64ii is a great center imo. I felt it was a huge upgrade over the 62 in sq.

To the op part of this can be placement. Are the rf82ii near corners or walls? That would give them a bigger sound in the lower end. The 64ii is probably placed far from any corners so it gets very little low end gain that way. Maybe try the xo higher than 80. Try 100 or even 120hz xo. That way more low end for the center will be handled by the sub.

My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 23 feet long, heavily treated with broadband absorber (6" thick, 100kg/m3 roxul) and membrane absorbers (8" deep sealed box, 2" glasswool inside with plywood from 4mm to 8mm thick for membrane).

All the RF-82ii, RC-64ii and 2 subs are 5 feet from the front wall with the RC-64ii in the middle. Each of the RF-82ii is 4 feet from the side wall. each of 2 Vel 10'' subs is about 6 feet from the side wall right next to the RF-82ii.

If the xo is higher than 80hz, i may have to deal with the localization of the sub.

[Scrappydue]

use an rf 82ii as your center channel?

As mentioned above, its not practical in my case. After all, i'm happy with RC-64ii as i was once happy with RC-62ii. But i think Klipsch could ve made me even happier at the same price range of RC-64ii

I agree. While I think the 64 is good, for retail I think it's extremely overpriced. The problem with the rc-7 is that the times are changing. And with that furniture is changing so I believe they are trying to make centers slimmer to fit inside cabinets and such. And for most people the 62 and 64 are deal breakers because of their size. Now for is who want good sound we sacrifice either have a less beautiful piece of furniture to hold out gear or we get that piece we want that fits a 64 but then pay 2500$ for it!

Now let me ask you this? How handy are you at woodworking? You could buy a single 82ii and take the front apart and make a new baffle for it and just rearrange the woofers and tweeters. There is a member here named Gorm who done this as he felt the rc-7 didn't match the sound of the rc-7. So his center now is a custom rf-7 turned sideways with dual 10's and the larger horn from the rf-7 as the rc-7 is the same driver but the horn is physically smaller.

[qtg90]

use an rf 82ii as your center channel?

As mentioned above, its not practical in my case. After all, i'm happy with RC-64ii as i was once happy with RC-62ii. But i think Klipsch could ve made me even happier at the same price range of RC-64ii

I agree. While I think the 64 is good, for retail I think it's extremely overpriced. The problem with the rc-7 is that the times are changing. And with that furniture is changing so I believe they are trying to make centers slimmer to fit inside cabinets and such. And for most people the 62 and 64 are deal breakers because of their size. Now for is who want good sound we sacrifice either have a less beautiful piece of furniture to hold out gear or we get that piece we want that fits a 64 but then pay 2500$ for it!

Now let me ask you this? How handy are you at woodworking? You could buy a single 82ii and take the front apart and make a new baffle for it and just rearrange the woofers and tweeters. There is a member here named Gorm who done this as he felt the rc-7 didn't match the sound of the rc-7. So his center now is a custom rf-7 turned sideways with dual 10's and the larger horn from the rf-7 as the rc-7 is the same driver but the horn is physically smaller.

You're right. Time changes thing changes.

And about the woodworking, i'm kind of a lazy and clumsy guy, so i maybe dont take the risk of doing this. I think i should just be satisfied with what the RC-64 is offering and wait a few years for the next series of the current RF II line. Hopefully at that time, Klipsch will make a dual 8"s center.

[wvu80]

It sounds like we've kind of run out of ideas for you, but I don't think you should give up.

It just seems like a crime for you to have such a nice setup anchored by the RF-82 II and every time you listen to it, it doesn't give you that GREAT feeling because you hear the gap in the sound, or null from that center.

I'll open this up to the others, but can the XO be reworked on that RC-64? Or, can you open it up and try adding some polyfill which might lower or pad that midrange?

[Heritage_Head]

The 64ii is a great center imo. I felt it was a huge upgrade over the 62 in sq.

To the op part of this can be placement. Are the rf82ii near corners or walls? That would give them a bigger sound in the lower end. The 64ii is probably placed far from any corners so it gets very little low end gain that way. Maybe try the xo higher than 80. Try 100 or even 120hz xo. That way more low end for the center will be handled by the sub.

My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 23 feet long, heavily treated with broadband absorber (6" thick, 100kg/m3 roxul) and membrane absorbers (8" deep sealed box, 2" glasswool inside with plywood from 4mm to 8mm thick for membrane).

All the RF-82ii, RC-64ii and 2 subs are 5 feet from the front wall with the RC-64ii in the middle. Each of the RF-82ii is 4 feet from the side wall. each of 2 Vel 10'' subs is about 6 feet from the side wall right next to the RF-82ii.

If the xo is higher than 80hz, i may have to deal with the localization of the sub.

Cant hurt to try. I would also try moving the 64 up a few inches (with a few books or something). Any small change can sometimes help. You might have a null where the 64ii is and its might be killing your low end. This just seems off to me. My reason is I ran the 64ii with the 82s for a bit. And it was not hard to hear that the 64ii was the best speakers in the room. They sounded great together but just saying. Then when I got the 7s the 64ii kept up with them very well. The rf7ii is a better speaker but they mate pretty nice. So it seems strange that the 64ii is not performing to the level of a rf82. And if eq doesn't help. It seems even more like a bass null.

[qtg90]

It sounds like we've kind of run out of ideas for you, but I don't think you should give up.

It just seems like a crime for you to have such a nice setup anchored by the RF-82 II and every time you listen to it, it doesn't give you that GREAT feeling because you hear the gap in the sound, or null from that center.

I'll open this up to the others, but can the XO be reworked on that RC-64? Or, can you open it up and try adding some polyfill which might lower or pad that midrange?

The 64ii is a great center imo. I felt it was a huge upgrade over the 62 in sq.

To the op part of this can be placement. Are the rf82ii near corners or walls? That would give them a bigger sound in the lower end. The 64ii is probably placed far from any corners so it gets very little low end gain that way. Maybe try the xo higher than 80. Try 100 or even 120hz xo. That way more low end for the center will be handled by the sub.

My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 23 feet long, heavily treated with broadband absorber (6" thick, 100kg/m3 roxul) and membrane absorbers (8" deep sealed box, 2" glasswool inside with plywood from 4mm to 8mm thick for membrane).

All the RF-82ii, RC-64ii and 2 subs are 5 feet from the front wall with the RC-64ii in the middle. Each of the RF-82ii is 4 feet from the side wall. each of 2 Vel 10'' subs is about 6 feet from the side wall right next to the RF-82ii.

If the xo is higher than 80hz, i may have to deal with the localization of the sub.

Cant hurt to try. I would also try moving the 64 up a few inches (with a few books or something). Any small change can sometimes help. You might have a null where the 64ii is and its might be killing your low end. This just seems off to me. My reason is I ran the 64ii with the 82s for a bit. And it was not hard to hear that the 64ii was the best speakers in the room. They sounded great together but just saying. Then when I got the 7s the 64ii kept up with them very well. The rf7ii is a better speaker but they mate pretty nice. So it seems strange that the 64ii is not performing to the level of a rf82. And if eq doesn't help. It seems even more like a bass null.

I know what you two mean, but i think this has nothing to do with null or peak or the room acoustic response since i had to deal with them before. About 1 year ago my HT sys is 5.1 consisting of 1 RC-62ii, a pair of RB-61ii for mains, a pair of Bose 301 for surs and one sub Vel eq-max 10", only one (XO is set at 80hz). Although my room at that time was also heavily acousticly treated just the same as right now, the bass response, more specifically the low end below 80z, is quite bad (but of course 10 times better than having no bass traps). I did do the crawl test for sub placement but the low end response is not good enough and fluctuate across the room especially in the center of the room and areas near the wall. After that i brought home the second Vel sub, the same one, hooked them up just like now, did a few phase settings and the problem disappeared, the low bass <80hz is just smooth, strong and evenly. My sofa (listening position) is about 9 feet from the rear wall.

About the RC-64ii, it's more to me about the characteristic of the bass. I agree that it's a great center speaker and its overall performance beat the RF-82ii with ease especially the midhigh and treble. But the midbass, i dont know exactly what frequency range midbass is, let's just say in the range from 80hz and 160hz, for me subjectively the RF-82ii is the winner in term of quality, not the output. Maybe its just the problem of taste. i dont know, just wonder if anyone think the same as i do.

Edited June 29, 2014 by qtg90

[Heritage_Head]

You know your system better than I

[pite]

If you like RF-82 II sound compared to RC-64 II then probably use one of it instead. I remember seeing couple of such set-ups where RF-7 II was used as a center channel.

 

In my setup, I've set center as large crossing over to sub at 60Hz sounds great - I'm quite satisfied with this setup along with my RF-7 IIs...

[jjptkd]

If you're happy with the center and just want more mid bass out of it try positioning a sub under the center or very close to center if possible. This would not be a LFE sub but an extension of the center channel itself. If possible run the speaker inputs from the receiver at full range into high level inputs on the sub and if the sub has speaker outputs run those to the center speaker. The sub would not have to be large or have an extremely low frequency output, down to about 24-30hz would work. Just an idea.

[Fish]

I know it was mentioned...and I did not read the whole thread but.......why is the rc7 not the one? I've owned the rc64, sold it right here, for big sound the rc7 was clearly superior to me . Have deang mod it........I love it as is.