Paducah Home Theater Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Wondering if anybody runs subs directly behind them. Thats what ive been doing due to odd room acoustics which was awesome for movies but it wasn't flat and didn't mesh with the fronts well on music. Just moved them and I like the sound on music better but theres not as much seat shaking sub bass. Running one in the front and one in back as recommended sounds awful so I hesitate to get two more. Whats the best way to get the best of both worlds? About to run audessey again, maybe it will fix itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The best thing is to get two more, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have 1 in front and 1 behind me and they shake the room with no issues. On both setups, 1 with Audyssey and 1 with YPAO. The one in the family room is set up so they are facing each other,and the one in living room had to have them face different angles for sound. Are you running them stereo, rear and front, or mono? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) The key I think for running one behind you is to level match it to the one in front. Have to be careful not to over due the volume in back. I couldn't get subs to mess well with the rf-7ii for music. No idea why but they sounded better with no sub imo. With the kpt904s the subs sound great with music. Edited November 23, 2014 by Pro-Cinema_Head 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I also have a unique room shape and run two subs--One RSW-12 on a sidewall in front of an unused fireplace that's about 4 1/2 feet from the MLP and an RSW-15 in the rear corner facing towards the MLP and about 5 1/2 feet away and in our 2,000 cu ft room blends seamlessly with my speakers being crossed over at 60 Hz from most of them... Fwiw, when we only had the single one in the rear it did seem to localize the bass and when I added the second it became nirvana. I also found prior to running/having Audyssey I would listen to my bass quite a bit hotter and since then I notice that it seems tighter and the sound coming out of my other speakers cleaner. EDIT: I was typing as Pro Cinema Head was posting and agree totally about level-matching both subs to the MLP. Fwiw, my Denon AVR-4311ci does that with Audyssey. Edited November 23, 2014 by tkdamerica 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Wondering if anybody runs subs directly behind them. Not directly but close enough. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Whats the best way to get the best of both worlds? Use RTA to investigate the matter. Not sure how Audyssey in the AVR reports its findings, but with my standalone unit I just run 3 sweeps through the subs, then 3 through the mains, and take a look at the two graphs. In a half hour or so I can accomplish what would take months of tweaking. Can also do roughly the same with a Behringer DEQ2496 (its peak-hold RTA function) and the sweeps track from Ethan Winer, or using REW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Subs in the rear not near speakers is always a problem with localization. For the most part it does not matter which way they are facing since bass is omnidirectional.. As mentioned in one of the post level match the front and rear subs to the MLP. Spreading them out as far as possible will also help if the room will allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Are you running them stereo, rear and front, or mono? I'm using both outputs from my Marantz SR-7009 which has XT32 with SubEQ. If there's a way to tell it you're running side by side vs. front and rear I'm unaware of that. The problem I am having is that my seats are 4' from the wall. If I use two behind me and spread them out it's pretty engulfing on movie LFE's. However if I move one up front and keep one in the back in the center, I get a lot of rear staging, I can tell the sub is right behind me in the middle and I don't like that. Running two behind me is the only way I've found that I like. Edited November 23, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The sub should be in mono bass even though there are two outputs on the avr. Level matching is the way to go. Lower the gain on the sub behind you until it is of the same spl as the other sub and speakers at the MLP and then rerun autocalibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The sub should be in mono bass even though there are two outputs on the avr. Level matching is the way to go. Lower the gain on the sub behind you until it is of the same spl as the other sub and speakers at the MLP and then rerun autocalibration. Fwiw, the AVR level matches them using Audyssey XT-32 and BassEQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 only way i have found to use front a rear subs and set them up properly was to use all the dsp in my inuke. i have let t32 take a stab at front a rear and didn't like how it sounded. i would rather let it have the front subs alone then add the rears in with setting the proper phase, delay, and then level match with the front. i keep all mine up front in the theater but have front and rear in my living room. i recently went to a friends who has 8 18" ultimax. 6 up front in a curved configuration and 2 in rear firing right into his middle two seats. i loved the rears ones with just about every movie i demo'd, however, when he turned on music it sounded most natural to me with just the front ones on. maybe its just what i am used to but my ears prefer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The key I think for running one behind you is to level match it to the one in front. Have to be careful not to over due the volume in back. I couldn't get subs to mess well with the rf-7ii for music. No idea why but they sounded better with no sub imo. With the kpt904s the subs sound great with music. seeing that pic makes me wanna get rid of my riser and the back row and move my row back just a bit and then get me 4 18's in the rear to fire right in the back of my couch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Also I xo my rear sub at 80hz and the other two fronts at 120. The idea with the lower xo is less localizing. The rear sub has to be running effortlessly or it will be easy to localize. My pb13 right behind you wouldn't even know its there with how its set up. So the lower xo point on the close sub might be a key also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ryan buy some shakers for a lot less and you will be happy. With music, I use the front subs half the time. Even when I use all 4 it sounds the same for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I actually had more localization / rear staging with my sealed ultimax's, even down low I heard more driver concussion than sub-bass and it didn't really shake much, just did a whole bunch of flopping around. Being that close, I prefer the sound of a ported box. Tempted to see if my sealed Ultimax 18's could be put up front to help with music and my ported 15's back to the rear right behind the seats to help with the shakes. Edited November 23, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ryan buy some shakers for a lot less and you will be happy. With music, I use the front subs half the time. Even when I use all 4 it sounds the same for the most part. I would if I needed them. But with it set up like this its really all I need. But I know that basements are always tricky and a real bi.ch. I wasn't happy tell I put a sub right on top of me dam near lol. Now the driver just vibrates a bit and barley moves. No chugging back and forth like it would if I had it on the other side of the room. Near filed could be a little like a poor mans horn sub? Less work for the same or better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The key I think for running one behind you is to level match it to the one in front. Have to be careful not to over due the volume in back. I couldn't get subs to mess well with the rf-7ii for music. No idea why but they sounded better with no sub imo. With the kpt904s the subs sound great with music. seeing that pic makes me wanna get rid of my riser and the back row and move my row back just a bit and then get me 4 18's in the rear to fire right in the back of my couch. I would but how often do you use the back row? Could your whole family fit on the front couch? If I had two rows we might use the back a few times a year. But the couch holds 4 pretty easy. So for me its an easy choice. Worst case I could always put a few chairs on both sides of couch. So 6 in a pinch would still work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) If I had two rows we might use the back a few times a year. I'm in that debate right now. I've got a row of four theater seats and that's it. When people come over, even if it's just the four of us and two extras, two people get the floor. Plus there's the whole lack of middle/perfect seat and whatnot. Been debating about turning everything 90 degrees and having two rows of three seats. But, for what? I'd lose my home office space, have to redo all my surrounds, just to accommodate people in which at this point has been happening at a rate of maybe twice in the last 1.5-2 years. That's a whole bunch of time and money for something so infrequent. Edited November 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 i host game day just about every sunday and fill up every seat as well as a few upstairs also. so the second row gets used a lot during foot ball. and if we have friends over i always let them sit front and me and the wife sit in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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