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Klipsch vs Polk: Missing Orchestra Instruments


rogerx

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Roger, I think your search bears more investigation.  I think you judge speakers like I do, which is how accurate the speaker is relative to a known musical instrument.  In this particular case, you are listening to woodwinds.  I listen to piano to determine accuracy. 

 

I have a vintage set of Klipsch CF-4 Epic speakers.  Piano sounded good on them, but I felt the pitch was about 1/3 octave too high.  I did some minor mods with acoustical polyfil and the bass reproduction was spot on, with no loss of that "live" sound.  A piano sounded like a piano should.  After that, all the other instruments, voice, etc sounded great.  FYI my ears are sensitive to horns and percussion, not so much as woodwinds like your ears are.

 

What I hear some of the other forum members suggesting is that a vintage Klipsch speaker which can be had for the same money as a newer set might give you a better setup for a 2-channel music setup.  The advantage of used gear is two-fold; you can get great sound for a fraction of new, and the vintage Klipsch gear really keeps its value.  If you buy vintage Heresy's for $400, you will likely be able to sell them for $400.  If you buy new anything for $400, you will be looking to resell for half that amount.

 

You might consider buying vintage, listen in your own home for a while, and if they aren't for you, sell them at the same price.  New will always be out there.

Edited by wvu80
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Also, rogerx, if the "missing sounds" are in the midrange, it should be worth noting that the Reference ii series and the new Reference models easily have the most recessed midrange in Klipsch history.

Every single other series(KG, Epic, Legend, Heritage, and even the first three Reference generations) has much more prominent midrange punch.

If you're looking for that extra warmth in the upper-bass/lower-mid, I'd suggest auditioning some RF-3, RF-35, RF-25, Forte, KLF, or CF.

In fact, the RF-25s can be found for $250 or less and is an absolute steal for the performance you get. In my experience, the very best value in used Reference.

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wvu80:  In my opinion, end users should not have to do something like that, as the so-called experts should have done so already especially with nowadays technology!  20 years ago or earlier when we were kids, yea we did all that fun stuff.  But with the little required effort, I don't blame you.  The only thing to remember is the speaker usually is designed to require some space behind it in order to breath or respond properly.  (ie. Infinite Baffle)

 

If you look at the "R-5800-W II In-Wall Speaker" with a frequency response of 40Hz-23KHz and having Infinite Baffle, there's likely little need to do any modifications and the frequency range might solve my hearing problems with woodwinds.  (The only likely modification might be to encase the inner wall with MFD or plywood, albeit costly and time consuming.)

 

Since this is a manufactured home (or small homes usually having small living rooms), I'm definitely opting for the "R-5800-W II In-Wall Speaker".  With small rooms, I'm always having problems with furniture in front of speaker placement.  In wall speakers, problem solved and the job is done quickly, and no messing with shelving or bookshelves or loose wires while vacuuming.  I'm now in the process of ensuring the installation locations are optimal with some general 2 x 40hz-20kHz 8" speakers and 2 x 45-20kHz 8" speakers.  (I hate cutting more then one whole per speaker.)

 

(Note: People renting or not wanting to learn about building codes, should probably continue buying the floor or bookshelf models.)

Edited by rogerx
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  • 4 weeks later...

I believe those were probably called "SDA Monitors".  They were spectacular in terms of soundstage--if you sat in the sweet spot, which is a line between the two loudspeakers of approximately equal distance. 

 

I still wonder why that function, instituted by Bob Carver in some of his Carver preamps, isn't still widely available on preamps that are two-channel.  It must be an artifact of the patent granted to Carver in the mid-80s, now run out.  I believe that there are software plugins for players like foobar2000 that recreate the effect.

 

That effect is much like Ambisonics using a wall between the stereo loudspeakers up to the listener, or binaural recordings using headphones to listen--spectacular if everything is done right.  But it's not very robust in terms of having more than one person in the room and having furnishings/walls in or around the loudspeakers or listeners.

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Assuming that you were hearing a non EQ'd or room corrected source between the two, go with what your ears like. Nothing wrong with Polk bookshelf and tower speakers, but I would want to make sure I was hearing a non colored source for an honest comparison. Like others have mentioned, if you are just buying two large bookshelf speakers, you really need to check out the Heresy. If you can possibly pull off something bigger, check out the Forte, Chorus, KLF, etc.  The are tons of great, used Klipsch speakers out there for a bargain and since you are being this particular about the quality of sound, once you get bookshelf units you'll likely want to take the next step or two up in size, everyone always does.

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rogerx,

 

First, Welcome to the Forum!!!

 

Now, down to business! Are you listening, because if you are, it has been said repeatedly and I will say it again, Heresy, Heresy, Heresy!!! Do I need to repeat myself???

 

What part of Ohio do you live in? My name is Roger also and I live in Bluffton, Ohio. We need to get you listening to some "REAL" Klipsch ie: those speakers designed by Paul Wilbur Klipsch and not these mass produced models designed after his death an built in China!

 

If you are all about aesthetics, by all means go with in wall, elevator music speakers, but if you are truly interested in musical reproduction, let us help set up some listening opportunities for you to show you what the company name was built around!

 

So, are you 100% sold on in walls our are you open for an opportunity to expand your listening experience???

 

Roger

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Good for you for taking material you were familiar with to a retailer. We used to do this all the time at little independent stereo shops and they were more than happy to oblige. As to the missing instruments or muffled sound (ie some issues with both systems), do consider the listening enviroment. You were in a gargantuan space, with hard surfaces, and high background noise level (compared to a home). Speakers will sound entirely different in a home listening environment, and probably different in a manufactured home than in one of standard construction. Perhaps someone here lives close, or your Marcos will allow a brief audition of the speakers in your home? 

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Never thought of cutting holes in my walls for the wall speakers, and then calling out the local stereo retailer to try-out some wall speakers!

 

For the time being and for testing sound quality, I've chosen to buy five very cheap 8 ohm speakers consisting of similar speaker material for installing within the walls.  Luckily, most of the more costly wall speakers require larger diameter (drywall) openings, so I shouldn't have to worry about patching the walls if I later upgrade the speakers.

 

NOTE: It wasn't really the fact that I was familiar with the music material for testing, but the fact I knew I had (in hand) very vanilla sounding music material and consisting of music from a broad range of frequencies and tones.  And the only way to definitely discern a loss or gain, is also by performing an immediate side by side comparison.  (ie. Probably would notice little difference by listing to my speakers at home, then driving 30 minutes and listening to the same material at a stereo store unless I had a superior memory far superior to a human's normal ability.)

Edited by rogerx
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Unless you're REALLY tight on space, I wouldn't go for in-wall speakers. A musician friend of mine did and really regretted it later. Stuck with the layout, made it hard to upgrade...

I've been in a new home for one year, arranged the living room three times already. Glad we've had floor stander to make the layout change more easily.

Bruce

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My thoughts on this in-wall/ceiling speakers versus floor speakers within wooden boxes; if your room is large enough, fine you have a choice.

 

But if you have limited space, then wall (or ceiling) speakers are likely your best option if you can run the wire cheaply within the walls, or opt for wall mount options.  (The wire-mold is much too expensive per foot!)

 

And if you have an idea what you're doing  acoustically, you'll find ways to fix problems more easily.

 

Easy method, use those floor speakers within wooden speakers.

 

For me, no matter how large my room is, I'll always opt for wall or ceiling speakers, whether mounted or flush.  I cannot stand furniture always being in the way, including wires.  (But give me a choice between HDMI or S/PDIF, and I'll jump for S/PDIF over HDMI any day!)

 

In my last house, I installed speaker wiring in the ceiling for two entertainment center locations, providing four runs speaker wire for front and rear speakers for both prospective entertainment center locations.  (The center speaker is usually easy to run without having to run wire inside a wall or ceiling.)  Now the future home buyer can enjoy surround or four speaker Mozart, without having to mess much with the wiring himself!  I'll very likely do the same install at this house as well.  (Similar to providing 10/100/1000 network wiring to every room in a house.)

Edited by rogerx
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