Please help: KL RF7II or KL 650?

[khactuyen]

Dear all, please give me some advice about choising KL RF7II (and RC 64II) or KL 650 (3 units):

- Sound quality? 80% movies - 20% music

- My gear:

+ Pre: Onkyo 3010 (as pre)

+ Pow: BK 200.7

+ Sub: Dual PSA XS30SE and XS15SE.

+ SR: KL 525

+ Room size: 3,6x6x3,6m (sealed)

So my some option:

- Option 1: RF 7II  for Main, KL 650 for center

- Op 2: 3 KL650 for main + center

- Op3: RF7ii for main, BW HTM1 for center

+ KL 650 is better than RC 64II? and BW HTM1?

+ I can get RF7ii at 2k$ (used) + BW HTM1 at $1700 from my friend; KL 650 (new, from dealer) at $900 shipped (from US).

+ RC64ii: i do like this speaker, it is harsh, less mid - mid bass (not warm for center).

/// I do not live in US so KL650 must ship from US (shipping cost is quite high - $4/lb)

Thanks.

Edited December 26, 2014 by khactuyen

[K5SS]

Go with the RF-7/RC-64 combo of you have the room.

Great subs BTW!

[Youthman]

I have never heard the THX Ultra2.  The RF-7ii are fantastic speakers for HT.  I also really enjoy them in my 2ch setup for music. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

I've got both, the THX will give you a more seamless sound stage which is a very nice effect, having three identical ones. Speech is very nice and accurate, just a pretty weak bottom end.

RF-7ii's will give you a more full range sound and is much better for music because of it, giving you that rock growl and strong midbass, but also sounds better on things like shooting scenes in movies. The finish is really nice as well in a standalone environment that isn't hidden.

Pick what is important to you.

[khactuyen]

Go with the RF-7/RC-64 combo of you have the room.

Great subs BTW!

Thanks, RF7ii is great but RC64 not best for center, i hear some time in my friend, it sound like hash (not warm).

Can i used BW HTM1 for center? it can good match with RF7?

[Scrappydue]

No b&w will keep up with a Klipsch speaker. Just not happening. If I were you and your ratio was 80/20 I'd get the kl-650's. The kl-650 is a much better center channel for movies. And to me the thx ultra has a laid back "warm" sound to them. They are some of the smoothest Klipsch I have owned. Sometimes good and sometimes bad. They also like power. Another thing to think about. Don't worry about the low end like metro said cause you have some killer subwoofers.

[Heritage_Head]

Dear all, please give me some advice about choising KL RF7II (and RC 64II) or KL 650 (3 units):

- Sound quality? 80% movies - 20% music

- Price RF7II about 2k$ (used), RC64ii: $750; KL 650 (3): $2200 shipped. I can buy KL Reference at my country, THX Ultra2 i must buy and shipping from US.

- My room size: 3,6x6x3,6m (sealed)

- Sub used: Dual PSA XS30SE and XS15SE.

Thanks.

You can get brand new 7s for that price where are you at?

[Paducah Home Theater]

Don't worry about the low end like metro said cause you have some killer subwoofers.

Killer subwoofers has nothing to do with it, as I'm not talking about sub-bass. It is my opinion that ideally, subwoofers shouldn't have to handle low midbass, and if they do, it needs to be coming from up front since these frequencies are more directional. It simply doesn't take killer subwoofers to handle these frequencies so that just doesn't matter.

I simply like the fact that RF-7ii's can dip a little lower even though I have two 18's and an iNuke 6000 right beside them. Those subs are plenty capable but I like the sound of certain things to come through the mains and not the subs, such as floor toms, gunshots, a growly rock singer, crunchy electric guitar riffs, low male voices, etc. These things don't sound as nice to me when you cut off the mains too high and send it all to the subs. KL-650's make you do this more than RF-7ii's, they don't have as much beef, and that has nothing to do with sub-bass.

Edited December 23, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Scrappydue]

Don't worry about the low end like metro said cause you have some killer subwoofers.

Killer subwoofers has nothing to do with it, as I'm not talking about sub-bass. It is my opinion that ideally, subwoofers shouldn't have to handle low midbass, and if they do, it needs to be coming from up front since these frequencies are more directional. It simply doesn't take killer subwoofers to handle these frequencies so that just doesn't matter.

I simply like the fact that RF-7ii's can dip a little lower even though I have two 18's and an iNuke 6000 right beside them. Those subs are plenty capable but I like the sound of certain things to come through the mains and not the subs, such as floor toms, gunshots, a growly rock singer, crunchy electric guitar riffs, low male voices, etc. These things don't sound as nice to me when you cut off the mains too high and send it all to the subs. KL-650's make you do this more than RF-7ii's, they don't have as much beef, and that has nothing to do with sub-bass.

if well integrated subs should blend in with the mains and you should never know. And if you think your rf-7ii play 80 hz better than your dual 18's up front well then your opinion is different than just about anyone I've ever talked to that is an enthusiast. Where do you cross your speakers at exactly metro? I'm curious.

[derrickdj1]

The RC 64 should not be harsh.  Make sure it is matched up with a good avr and room correction.  I think the THX gear would be nice if you're 80% movies.  For me, I can't see the center channel being that much greater.  The 7's and 64 were made to work together.  I guess it comes dow to preference.  Demo the systems if you have a chance.

 

As for subs playing bass, I currently have the subs XO at 50 Hz.  They sound the same XO at 80 Hz which sounds the same with most material running the 7's full range.  The key point is the 7's, 83's, 63's, 7II's ect all start to produce non-linear bass near 50 Hz/increase distortion.  Forget about what Klipsch or any other manufacturer says.  Those measurements are at 1 meter and who knows what else is involved.  A good sub will out perform the mains in the lower bass.  It will also convert the system to a Quasi 3-way for a better sound.

Edited December 23, 2014 by derrickdj1

[khactuyen]

I have never heard the THX Ultra2.  The RF-7ii are fantastic speakers for HT.  I also really enjoy them in my 2ch setup for music. 

Thanks, i used RF7ii for 2 years ago (now i can get from my friend)

[khactuyen]

 

Dear all, please give me some advice about choising KL RF7II (and RC 64II) or KL 650 (3 units):

- Sound quality? 80% movies - 20% music

- Price RF7II about 2k$ (used), RC64ii: $750; KL 650 (3): $2200 shipped. I can buy KL Reference at my country, THX Ultra2 i must buy and shipping from US.

- My room size: 3,6x6x3,6m (sealed)

- Sub used: Dual PSA XS30SE and XS15SE.

Thanks.

You can get brand new 7s for that price where are you at?

 

NO, it is used from my friend.

Thanks.

[Heritage_Head]

Ok but they cost about 2k to buy them brand new. I wouldn't pay 2k for used ones.

[khactuyen]

Ok but they cost about 2k to buy them brand new. I wouldn't pay 2k for used ones.

Thanks, it is only used about 2 months.

in my country the brand new cost $2500.

[Paducah Home Theater]

if well integrated subs should blend in with the mains and you should never know. And if you think your rf-7ii play 80 hz better than your dual 18's up front well then your opinion is different than just about anyone I've ever talked to that is an enthusiast. Where do you cross your speakers at exactly metro? I'm curious.

The issue is with fullness of sound on music, not an 80 hz sine wave. Yeah believe it or not I kinda prefer my mains to reproduce electric guitar riffs as crazy as that sounds, and like for it to sound full when they do. The root frequency of the low E on an electric guitar is 82 hz with harmonics being even lower, not to mention drop D tuning on heavy metal being lower than that. I don't like depending on my subs to pick up the slack and handle that, and THX's are kinda weak in this area. RF-7ii's don't have that problem. Your mains should simply be able to play anything that comes out of an electric guitar and do it very well. If that statement makes me an oddball in the audio world then so be it.

You said yourself awhile ago that your new wall of 6 15's on your mains has tons more punch than your old THX's and you seemed to like this very much. Why do you think that is? It has nothing to do with your subs. You're contradicting yourself.

For the record I cross over at 80 hz but let my mains run full range. I would cross over lower for movies to be honest but 80 gets more punch on kick drums. When I had my THX's I cut them off at 80. I tried 60 but they didn't like it and it didn't gain me anything. There was always this void around 80 hz, like they wanted to be crossed over at 100 hz but my subs didn't. Music never sounded full, that rock growl just wasn't there. Speech and movies was no problem. Rock music, not so much. THX's crossed over at 80hz never gave me the fullness on rock music that I like. I just don't think that killer subs is the answer to that issue.

Edited December 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[derrickdj1]

The THX recommended XO of 80 Hz is based on a sealed speaker system.

[khactuyen]

Thanks all, who has BW HTM1, KL RC64II and KL 650? the best of them for center? 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Thanks all, who has BW HTM1, KL RC64II and KL 650? the best of them for center?

I have the RC-64ii as well as the previously mentioned KL-650's and RF-7ii. As derrick said, the RC-64ii shouldn't sound harsh. Just like the RF-7ii conversation, I prefer the RC-64ii for concert movies and the KL-650-THX for speech. Regardless, I think you should match whatever mains you get. I tried running a KL-650-THX with my RF-7ii's but it was a little weird, the center sounded dead comparatively since it is so flat. Running a B&W center would be even weirder in my opinion.

Edited December 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[khactuyen]

 

Thanks all, who has BW HTM1, KL RC64II and KL 650? the best of them for center?

I have the RC-64ii as well as the previously mentioned KL-650's and RF-7ii. As derrick said, the RC-64ii shouldn't sound harsh. Just like the RF-7ii conversation, I prefer the RC-64ii for concert movies and the KL-650-THX for speech. Regardless, I think you should match whatever mains you get. I tried running a KL-650-THX with my RF-7ii's but it was a little weird, the center sounded dead comparatively since it is so flat. Running a B&W center would be even weirder in my opinion.

 

Hi, KL 650 is warmer than RC64? 650 is better than RC 64 in voice (for me it is the best importand for center), i had RC64ii but sold after 5 months used.

BW HTM1 i hear alot from my friend, it is super clear, sounded real and warmest.

i feel RF7ii is warmer than RC64ii alot (compare A-

I will get RF7 for front.

Please give me some advice about choising KL650 or HTM for center.

Thanks.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Hi, KL 650 is warmer than RC64?

I don't think so. I think speech is more accurate due to being flat, that's about it, and it's voiced differently than RF-7ii.