Mallette Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Rationality though, is fortunately just ONE belief system you can adopt in this hobby, not the ONLY one. Amen. And just as with religion or other belief systems it isn't very nice to ridicule another's beliefs or proselytize your own unless to an interested audience. Whole thing was nicely put, Mark, and indicative of a lifetime spent in the business. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Whole thing was nicely put, Mark, and indicative of a lifetime spent in the business. Dave Dave, Your Juicy Music discount is in the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilC Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm waiting on a pair fresh jupiter cap crossovers from DeanG. Still awaiting... you sir, are the most patient man in the world. I submitted my order at the very end of October with a known wait time of 8 weeks. Hadn't heard from Dean in a while so I did send a couple of annoying emails checking status. He got back to me a few days ago - he re-injured his back and has been moving slow as a result. No bother to me, as long as communication lines stay open. That's interesting Didnt hear from Dean in a while? Where did I read this before? Anyway.... I've owned the ALK Universal and now Deans Super X. No comparison. Spending more on parts DO make difference. D To Schu: I am the most patient man in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Rationality though, is fortunately just ONE belief system you can adopt in this hobby, not the ONLY one. Amen. And just as with religion or other belief systems it isn't very nice to ridicule another's beliefs or proselytize your own unless to an interested audience. Whole thing was nicely put, Mark, and indicative of a lifetime spent in the business. Dave The implication here is that setting up a stereo rig, into which the choice to include the magic buss certainly falls, is somehow not a reductive affair. Are you prepared to go down that path? I think this line of thinking conflates different aspects of this hobby. On the one hand is the subjective aspect of enjoying the music, and on the other are the tools used for playback. I'm all about the goosebumps, uncontrolled air guitar freakouts, dancing, or being moved to tears by the music. But to get that experience I follow the pragmatic approach, where expenditures relate directly to actual perfomance gains. I pay most attention to the room/speakers, as that's where most gains are to be made. One very well might realize more gains than the uber buzz brings by turning off the HVAC in the house when geeking out to music. Edited December 30, 2014 by Ski Bum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 For an audio junkie, have you ever dabbled into DIY speaker building, amp building? Umm..... Ya, just a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Do you now see how the analogy from networks to power conditioning is a bad one? No. I fail to see why. You said yourself, that a cap can make a difference. Why on earth would cleaner power not make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 For an audio junkie, have you ever dabbled into DIY speaker building, amp building? Umm..... Ya, just a bit. I don't care who you are.......................that's funny right thar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 On the one hand is the subjective aspect of enjoying the music, and on the other are the tools used for playback. And you thereby name the two factions of this Forum and audiophilia in general. I've always thought it extraordinary that those of one camp can even tolerate those of the other, much less get along as well as we do most of the time. It's really only threads like this one where one camp simply fails to comprehend the other and friction develops. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) What the "UBERBUSS" (not Magic Buss) does is enhance the entire listening experience in my system. Have you ever bought a DAC, amp, or preamplifier, FE, that had better SNR than one you were previously using? It is like a fog disappears that you did not know was in the music, and the artists are more focused and farther apart. That's what the UBERBUSS does sonically for all your components. It is additive in this lowering of noise effect. You can buy several conditioners, but most give here and take there, primarily in dynamics and power of the presentation. About any form of conditioning will help things focus better, but most conditioners rob the life out of your music, likely because they are increasing the impedance of your line too much. The UBERBUSS takes nothing away, and actually improves the dynamics in my system, as well as the benefits and effects of lowering the noise. Only improvements are realized, with no detriment to the sound, I have found. This is what sets it apart IME. Edited December 30, 2014 by paul79 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 On the one hand is the subjective aspect of enjoying the music, and on the other are the tools used for playback. And you thereby name the two factions of this Forum and audiophilia in general. I've always thought it extraordinary that those of one camp can even tolerate those of the other, much less get along as well as we do most of the time. It's really only threads like this one where one camp simply fails to comprehend the other and friction develops. Dave Yeah, when someone suggests we to spend $1095 with dubious justification, I question it. I probably went about it the wrong way, because I wish no animosity between any other forum members. So my apologies for channeling Peter Aczel curmudgeonyness, and respect to all. It's a great community we have here. I hope that everyone views the entire discussion with about the same level of seriousness as "Raiders suck! Broncos suck!" bickering. So with that, GO TEAM SCIENCE! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Amen, Ski Bum... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 What the "UBERBUSS" (not Magic Buss) does is enhance the entire listening experience in my system. Have you ever bought a DAC, amp, or preamplifier, FE, that had better SNR than one you were previously using? It is like a fog disappears that you did not know was in the music, and the artists are more focused and farther apart. That's what the UBERBUSS does sonically for all your components. It is additive in this lowering of noise effect. You can buy several conditioners, but most give here and take there, primarily in dynamics and power of the presentation. They can help things focus better, but most conditioners rob the life out of your music. The UBERBUSS takes nothing away, and actually improves the dynamics in my system. This is what sets it apart IME. Ok, we're getting closer, cool. Lowering noise seems like the sort of thing to be measured objectively, particularly if the effect is so extreme as to be audible. Sound sensible? But what if the system's overall S/N is not the bottleneck to realizing that fog free liveliness? Take my rig, which is unfortunately in a place with a noise floor of the high 30 db range on a good day. My system's limits far exceed that, but I use them within a range where noise (fog, focus, etc.) is simply not an issue. My main rig is dead silent, and if the source material brings the goods, my system delivers them quite vivaciously. (Yeah, Dave, your recordings are outstanding at painting very realistic pictures in my mind upon listening. Bravo.) I still need convincing that I really need to spend a thousand bucks for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm waiting on a pair fresh jupiter cap crossovers from DeanG. Still awaiting... you sir, are the most patient man in the world. I submitted my order at the very end of October with a known wait time of 8 weeks. Hadn't heard from Dean in a while so I did send a couple of annoying emails checking status. He got back to me a few days ago - he re-injured his back and has been moving slow as a result. No bother to me, as long as communication lines stay open. That's interesting Didnt hear from Dean in a while? Where did I read this before? Anyway.... I've owned the ALK Universal and now Deans Super X. No comparison. Spending more on parts DO make difference. D To Schu: I am the most patient man in the world I can't speak to your specific situation, but I waited until the approach of my 8 week time window before reaching out and asking about status. And Dean was responsive and transparent about expected delays. I know he'll deliver the goods as promised, and I know the stress of balancing daily life with my hobbies - I can't imagine tacking on a side business and hurt back to the equation, so I'll give the guy se grace and continue to wait patiently. See what you've done? Got me all off topic and what not; and I was such a good boy this quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The "fog" in our systems is cumulative... each part from beginning to end adding a little (or not so much) bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Off topic, but I am listening to Willy Nelson's Greatest Hits and I swear he is standing in front of me. I know squat about S/N ratios, noise floors, dynamics and power of presentation, etc. Nonetheless, Willy is in my living room and he was not before I replaced my amps yesterday. Most of my friends are engineers. We have never been able to have a discussion about artistic matters. They talk about ME, CE, ChemE, stuff. I just see a beautiful bridge. The only exception are the architects who seem to be able to integrate the soul of art with the science of art. I think that is what is going on here. I swear Willy is in my living room. Edited December 30, 2014 by eth2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilC Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 See what you've done? Got me all off topic and what not; and I was such a good boy this quarter. Sorry about that Those xovers are going to make your speakers sound fantastic.....eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Oops, I'm still Peter Aczel-ing. The discussion of air/fog/etc. and general all around convincing liveliness of audio rigs reminds me of last Thanksgiving dinner, when we had a small gathering. One of the guests is a semi-pro musician, well, drummer, if that counts, and one of the few musician friends of mine who traversed the musician/audiophile barrier. Most of them seem satisfied with a boom box for a stereo, but this guy like the stereo gear too. He's been wildly successful at his day job, and keeps very busy, so a full fledged dive down the audio rabbit hole never happened. What he did do was spend about $50K all said and done on his rig, figuring any and all problems would be solved simply by doing so. He used one of the few remaining high end brick and mortar stores, got a fancy rig pretty much of their choosing. Because our dining room wouldn't allow, we moved the dinner table to the living room (where the fortes live), and made sure that my drumming audiophile's seat was the sweetest spot to be. Though normally among the more talkative of the group, he was definitely distracted by the music, and by desert, more wine, and the wine's effect on the volume control, he was totally blown away and asking all sorts of questions about my stereo, particularly how much more real it made music sound than his. He's a Klipschie now. Full LaScala HT rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Noise floor of your system and noise permeating and riding in the music is different too. My system is dead quiet, in regards to putting my ear up to the speaker, and was before I put the UBERBUSS in the system, or any other conditioner for that matter. Edited December 30, 2014 by paul79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It's pretty silly for one "team" to think they can get by without the other. As much as I love science and want to understand how things work in audio, in the end it must be measured subjectively by people. The anecdotal evidence presented by people who I have come to respect and trust is worth far more than specs, charts, and graphs. It has paid off for me the majority of the time! Don't think I'm saying that measurements are meaningless though... just that they don't tell the whole story and certainly are not the end. In the end, the fog in my brain decides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 "The Audio Critic" was always entertaining The letters to the editor and the responses, at least. Jerry Springer level entertainment. Aczel may have been a sour puss, but he had some pretty clever ideas. I think his "power cube" amp measurements were quite insightful, the sort of thing that could really help those shopping for amps if it were widely adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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